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Discussion Starter #1
Shot 100 rounds thru my PS90 today. Only the 3rd time I have shot it, and only the 2nd time at an outdoor range.

I banged the Eotech before I even started, so it took me a few rounds to sight it in just slightly again. Damn it :oops:

Anyway, Overall, I am still impressed with the gun at 50 yards. With the heavy trigger, I still hit left or right, with not enough consistancy to make Eotech adjustments. That's just me. The trigger isn't exactly match quality, and its very easy to move the gun.

Also, I am not sure if it really changes the trajectory, but I sometimes find myself holding the gun at a slight tilt. Whenever I saw this, I'd put it back straight, and try to remember to notice this.

I did all my shooting on a sandbag rest today. I guess I'll never be totally satisfied unless every shot is in the center, but I know that will never happen :p Anyway, this is my best target. For whatever reason, it looks morre impressive in person than it does in the pic :p :p



I did get to try the carry strap out a lot today, walking back and forth up the 50 and 100 yard range. I had the entire range all to myself, so that was nice.

I did shoot a few rounds at 100 yards. Once again, most of the variation was me. 1 shot did hit dead on. the rest was either high or low. Its VERY hard to use a non magnified scope for bullseye shooting at that distance. I mean, if it was an animal or attacker, all the shots would have hit. I'm just my own worst critic.

I did notice that if I put my eye very close to the eotech, I'd do better. I don't think I'll move it back an inch or so on the rail, however, because in close quarter combat, it would be better to have it further forward. I'll just keep holding it closer to my face while on the bag rest.
 

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I was concentrating on my Delta Elite this trip. I did get a few rounds through both my PS90 and my USG though.

My 55 grain reloads do pretty well through the PS90, but not as well through the USG. The SS195 shoots pretty well dead on, but the 55 grainers print much lower. This is the exact opposite of what I am used to with different weight handgun bullets.

Can't spend too much time posting, as I need to get back to reloading, so I can give both 5.7s a good workout next time. With the weather forecast the way it is, that probably won't be for a couple of weeks.

I need to order some different bullets to load the 5.7. I am going to get some 40 gr V-Max, and attempt to duplicate the SS197 load.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
All I have is the 197.

I am keeping my brass from now on. When I get over 500, maybe I'll find someone who will buy it. Who knows...
 

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By all means, save that brass. The more brass that we can recycle, the less global warming. Just ask Al Gore, he should know, after all, he invented the internet.

I have been watching 5.7 brass on E-bay. There for a while I thought that a dime a round delivered was a good price. 1400 cases later, I quit keeping track. Now it seems like the price is moving up a little, just like every other component required to reload.

If there is one thing I would like to say to E-Bay brass vendors it is this. Please do not tumble 5.7 brass. This could possibly damage the lacquer. I prefer to clean in Simple Green solution. Other brass is fine tumbled, and it might save me some processing time. (Not necessarily, as I can easily watch TV, drink beer, and tumble brass safely at the same time).

I am really interested in seeing what kind of brass life I can get.
 

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Nice shooting Ship. How big is that group center to center and how many shots? I think I counted 13 holes. What is the average of all your groups that day?

How did you bang your Eotech? You sound like you have my luck. I swear that every time I get something nice the first thing I should do is bang it with a hammer and get the initial damage over with.

My groups were moving around the center of my target until I got some good targets. Your target looks like you should be able to center on it OK. Try some round targets and see if it makes a difference. I got some Champion Score Keeper 100 yard rifle precision sighting in targets at Wal-Mart and those worked well for me.

I have about 900 rounds through the PS90 so far, 600 rounds after mounting a Compact ACOG, and am finally getting comfortable with shooting it consistantly from a bench at 50 yards. I hadn't done hardly any rifle shooting before getting the PS90, so it is taking me a while to get accurate.

I agree, the trigger is way too long, but probably what you want in a combat rifle. When I hold my breath and start to pull the trigger I almost run out of air before the trigger finally releases :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
SunsetSam said:
Nice shooting Ship. How big is that group center to center and how many shots? I think I counted 13 holes. What is the average of all your groups that day?

How did you bang your Eotech? You sound like you have my luck. I swear that every time I get something nice the first thing I should do is bang it with a hammer and get the initial damage over with.

My groups were moving around the center of my target until I got some good targets. Your target looks like you should be able to center on it OK. Try some round targets and see if it makes a difference. I got some Champion Score Keeper 100 yard rifle precision sighting in targets at Wal-Mart and those worked well for me.

I have about 900 rounds through the PS90 so far, 600 rounds after mounting a Compact ACOG, and am finally getting comfortable with shooting it consistantly from a bench at 50 yards. I hadn't done hardly any rifle shooting before getting the PS90, so it is taking me a while to get accurate.

I agree, the trigger is way too long, but probably what you want in a combat rifle. When I hold my breath and start to pull the trigger I almost run out of air before the trigger finally releases :wink:
Its either 13 or 14 - I am not sure. There is a spot around the "5pm" mark or so that is either 2 or 3 rounds connected. I can't tell for sure when looking at the actual target itself.

This was my best target out of all of them. Some of the others would have 1 high or low or a shot to the side. It's me, though, not the gun. 1/2 way thru the shooting, I figured out to lower the brightness of the eotech to where U could barely see that center dot. That made it easier to see the center of the target instead of it being blindly covered by the dot. That made a difference.

Also, when I brought my face closer to the EOtech, I found my groups got tighter and more consistent.

As for the targets - I started with those Champion targets from wal-mart. They were too busy for me. My shots were worse. And, I really couldn't even see my holes in the target w/ my binoculars. I kept having to walk up to the target up the range. I finallt swopped to these targets from academy, and it made a big difference. My groups got better. And, I could finally see the holes thru the bincoulars (This was the first time I used these binoculars since buying them - at first I thought they might not be powerful enough - but those targets were just too "busy." I could even see out on the 100 yard target w/ them).

Also, I found that when I didn't have to walk up and down every few shots to see how I was doing, my hands didn't shake as much. Walking back and forth, several times, for hundreds of yards in total kinda got the blood flowing, and that made it hard to keep my hands steady when pulling the trigger. Once I was able to use the binocs, that helped too.

How did I bump it? Well, when I sandbag the gun, I have them on the front (actually the middle) of the stock and the rear of the stock. All the other times, if I tuck it intp the sandbag a little, it will stand there - on its own, without tipping over. Not this time. As I was getting my binocs positioned, the wind came and blew it over in front of me as I sat at the shooting table. It tipped over and landed partially on the eotech cover. It was a hard enough hit to affect the centering of the site. It took me a few shots and a couple of screw adjustments when I first started. :evil:

Anyway, it all worked out. Thank god I didn't have the cheaper Bushnell version w/o that protective metal cover. It may have been damaged.

Today makes my total round count 260. Not much yet. Before this trip, I put 60 at an indoor range and used the opportunity to finalize the settings of my laser. But after that, it got boring to shoot at a 15 yard indoor range w/ a rifle. So, I wanted to go outside again.

This is the first rifle I've ever owned, so this is new to me too.
 

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I see what you mean about the Champion target I used being busy. I haven't found a picture of it on the net. The one I used has one large 12" target surounded by four smaller 4" targets. These targets all overlap making it pretty busy. The target didn't bother me with the 2x20 Compact ACOG with the red crosshair. I might have felt different if I were using an Eotech.

I didn't give it much thought, but the type and style of target definately made a difference to me in the groups I shot and their location around the center of the target. If your reticle covers most of your target that will make it harder to be consistant.

After one range session I asked the rangemaster if he could figure out what I was doing. He said my vertical stringing might be from jerking the trigger, so I'm making an effort to be smooth. On that session I was shooting a target that consisted of progressively smaller human silhouettes. These targets made it hard for me to stay on center. I found I was doing more vertical stringing on the smallest of the silhouettes.

If your groups are moving from side to side could that be due to wind? How much wind did you have that day?

So far I'm averaging 1 3/4 inches at 50 yards for 5 shot groups shooting SS195LF. I think I can do better and I think SS197SR is more accurate, but I need to do more shooting with that round.

The range I shoot at has a spotting scope that comes in handy. I have some 7x50 binoculars, but those really aren't powerful enough. I need to get a spotting scope too.
 

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Actually, the wind wasn't that bad, but I suppose its possible. I am glad I went yesterday and not this morning. Its like 35F outside right now and windy. It was cloudy, but almost 60F yesterday when I went at 10am.

Between the center target and the 4 surrounding targets, AND the grip pattern, I just couldn't shoot well with thos Champion Targets. I bought them because I figured I could use the 4 surrounding targets and get more use out of them before having to go downrange and change the target. But, I hated them.

I'm just gonna finish using the rest of them on the pistol range (I did that yesterday w/ my USPc that I shot after I finished my 100 rounds w/ the PS90).

I will only be buying those targets from Academy now. In fact, on the way home, I picked up a batch for my next trip, since I only had a few left. I am one who likes to change out targets very often, and start w/ a free target.

While U have the vertical drift, I had more horizontal drift. I think most of that was me, and not the wind. Its very easy to move the gun with the long trigger pull. It wasn't until I put my eye up very close to the eotech that I started to get the smaller groups. On the sandbags, I found that it was pretty easy to keep the vertical axis from moving. But, I did find myself tilting the gun in a lot, intead of keeping it straight.

After my 1st range trip, I went and bought a set of leather sandbags at Wal-Mart. They stay connected together with a thring. They are very convinient. Only thing is that the rear one is getting a black spot because I tend to put it under the ejection port to help balance the gun :p

As for the binocs and spotting scope, I bought a tiny paid of 10x binoculars at Academy for like $14 after christmas. This was the first time I used the, They worked great on the targets that I liked. The Wal-Mart targets - I couldn't see the holes in them w/ the binocs because of all the black lines and circles. With the green and orange targets I could even see the holes in the 100 yard targets. I was surprised.

Now, a spotting scope w/ a tiny tripod would be nice, but I can't afford one - even a cheap one is over $15. These3 binocs are fine. The range also has big blocks of wood a person can use to steady the gun. I stack up a few and rest the binocs on them. Worked great.
 

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OK, I thought wind might have been a factor since you said it was enough to blow your PS90 over (ouch!, I don't even like typing that ).

Maybe the Champion targets I used worked for me because of the 2x magnification of the ACOG. Like you, I liked that they had 5 areas to shoot so I didn't have to change the target as often.

I guess the moral of the story is to try different targets and get those that work for you.

I feel like I'm 99% sighted in now. With these Champion targets I was grouping in one place consistantly enough that I could adjust the sight to get the groups on center.

Now that I know the rifle is sighted in and I know what we are capable of at 50 yards I'll try different yardages, targets, and shooting offhand.

Maybe reaper can give us some pointers. If he can shoot 1 inch offhand groups at 100 yards with a 9mm Beretta Storm he must know what he is doing :D
 

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Yes, I'll bet the 2x magnification is what helped U.

As I said above, I notided that my shots were better when I turned down the eotech reticle to where I could barely see it. Then, I could see the part of the target "under" the red dot. It made my groups a little better.

Remember, this gun isn't supposed to be an AR. I also posted my target at Handgun Forum, and someone told me I saw being too hard on grading myself - that this was a great 50 yard target w/ an EOtech.

Overall, I am satisifed.

Now, I tried 5 shots at 100 yards. 1 was dead on. The rest were either high or low. So, I did not have a good grouping. But, that tells me it is me, not the gun, since I did get one bullseye. The slight movement that gives me the variation at 50 yards will double the group size at 100 yards. So, its understandable. Kinda like why U can shoot awesome w/ a handgun at a closer distance, but have issues when U move further away.

To be honest, I don't see myself shooting at 100 yards very often. With an EOtech, its just too damn fara. Granted, I could hit the paper. So, in the real world, I COULD hit a target at that distance. It jsut won't be in the exact place I would want, like I could do at 50 yards. I'll bet I could probably at least hit the paper at 150 yards if need be. But that's really way beyond what an Eotech is designed for.

I always see these pistol guys claim that they can hit a gong at 100 yards w/ a pistol. I wanna know where all these guys get these giant gongs :p :p :p :p

I'll bet that I could at least hit a giant gong at 200 yards with my PS90 if I had too :p :p :p :p
 

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Hey, post up one of your targets. I'd like to see it..

The one I posted was my best - an interestingly enough, itw as also the last target of the day. So, I think w/ more range trips, I'll get better. Rifles are new to me.
 

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Ask and ye shall receive:



I shot 75 rounds of SS197SR today. The average 5 shot, 50 yard group was a little over 1 1/2 inches. The weather was less than ideal at 50 degrees with 30mph+ winds blowing from behind me.

I'm happy with the groups I'm getting and I think I can do better. One of the reasons I've been focusing on group size is that you and Promoted Pawn said you were getting 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards. I felt inadequate :wink:
 

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Thanks!

Ship, what size was that group you showed above?

One of the guys at the range said he had a PS90. He shot 5 rounds with my rifle and got about a 5 inch 50 yard group. He said he preferred the stock Ring Sight over the ACOG (blasphemy!). I'm sure with time he would change his mind.
 

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Well, each of those squares is 1 square inch, and then there is a thinner line that goes down the middle to split it up into half inch segments. So, U can look at the pic and kinda judge the distance by the squares in my target. All but a few of those shots are within about an inch distance from the very center.


As for thet guy - that was just his excuse for his poor shooting :p
 

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I figured it was about 2 inches.

Hehe, I'm sure the guy could have tightened up his groups quickly. He shot with the rifle on my soft gun case, not hunkered into the Wal-Mart sandbags like me.

My first groups with the standard Ring Sight were about 5 inches at 50 yards.

I'd like to have a really good shot show me how it is done.
 

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Well, give or take, our two targets are very similiar. I have more shots on the 1 area, whereas you used each of the 5 bullseyes on yours.

I think that's about the best we'll get, however, considering the trigger, and this was never designed to be a sniper rifle. It will never match an AR set for 1 MOA at 100 yards. But it is MORE than adequate, and it is an awesome personal defense weapon.

Being able to have the gun lay flat w/ no mags sticking down also gives the rifle an advantage.

I know I have the urge to do better everytime I do, and am disappointed when I can't just put all the shots dead in the center. But, I don't know if that's possible - at least not w/o a higher powered mag scope.

I may get a bit better w/ time. But I think our two targets are similiar enough to show that this is probably it - at least unless U got that trigger tamer thing (which is now pulled from the market)
 

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I'm satisfied wih the accuracy, espsecially considering what the rifle was designed for.

Once I shot some Tannerite I wanted to get the groups down from my initial 5 inches at 50 yards. A 1/2 pound Tannerite bottle is about 2 inches wide and 5 1/2 inches tall.

I mainly want to know my limitations. If I use the rifle for hunting or self defense I figure shot placement will be very important.
 
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