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Discussion Starter #1
I realize some think the FS2K trigger is fine but I've been spoiled with ARs and sporting guns and find it really detrimental to accuracy. I also realize bullpups have trigger issues but FN has done such a fine engineering job it seems it could be better... Yes, my FS2K is new and, yes, I've tried various lubes but the combination of mushy weight and breaking just before or after you expect is tough!

I've noticed that after removing the 'hammer group assembly', trigger resistence is negligible, this isn't where the problem is. There also doesn't seem to be much mass to the trigger/rods that might cause a discharge should the weapon be dropped on it's butt. Any comments on or experience with the following approaches:

1) Replace the 'sear' return springs with lighter springs. This was posted about a year ago but without any follow-up. There will be practical limits to this approach, the sear has to return smartly to the forward position, but the stock springs seem serious overkill. And I USE my safety when carrying with a round chambered, it blocks the trigger from rearward movement even if dropped...

2) Do some ceramic stone work on the sear/hammer so it breaks with some regularity. I DON'T mean changing angles or reinventing the wheel, just removing manufacturing irregularities, burrs, roughness... I seriously doubt the polymer hammer/sear will ever 'break like a glass rod', to quote gun-writers for the last 50 years, but it should become more regular and repeatable with a little work. Would a regular fine stone, like used on steel sears/hammers, work or is there some other method for polymer parts?

I'm sure the first reply will be "Let us know how it turns out!"... To that end, do the pins in the hammer group go left, right or either way to remove? I'd guess left because the takedown pin goes left but would rather ask than risk injury to fine Belgian polymer! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #2
For lack of responses I tried some things and got some startling results.

Started with almost an 11lb trigger pull, my stock Armalite AR is 6lbs. Tried FS2K with ONE sear spring, trigger pull went down to 5 lb 8oz. and thought I was really doing something until the drop test: dropped butt-first onto a carpeted wood floor...

With one spring the hammer will fall when dropped from 6 inches, that's too spooky for me.

Tried it with the spring replaced, back in stock condition, and was shocked to find the hammer will fall when dropped from 10 inches, 8 inches without carpet! :evil: Since the AR was handy, I tried it but gave up at 18 inches on the bare floor without a hammer fall...

OMG! Do I have a problem rifle here? Anyone else dropping their $2,000 rifle onto a 3" cypress floor or am I alone with this? :D
 

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Scary... As for dropping, I dont plan on trying it.. Anyone else?

I have been watching this thread, I hope you can come up with something safe but better.

Good luck.
 

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Carry your rifle muzzle down and you'll never have to worry about it. If you drop it, it won't go off. Messing with springs and internals is kind of a scary proposition in my opinion. It could be viewed as "modifying" a firearm and if it were ever to, lets say, shoot more than one, you'd be up that one particular creek without a paddle.

As to the trigger pull, the FS2000 is a battle rifle, not a benchrest rifle. They design them with heavier trigger pulls for a reason. I'd suggest that each tool has a specific roll, using them for that roll is much easier and much less of a potential legal hassle than modifying them.

That being said, I'd think that some dry graphite might help. The reason I say this is because with the hammer pack installed, the trigger is going to push the arms up against the hammer block, and this will in turn put the arms against the sides or top of the channel they sit in. Might help to use something like graphite that wouldn't collect a bunch of gunk in it. Good Luck.

Zhur

ps. I'll stick to my heavy trigger and just learn to shoot it better, like with every gun, it takes practice and trigger time to get used to it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I wish it were so easy, just carry it so it won't land on the butt (FS2K) or hammer (old model Roger/SAA) or get 'flexed' (Remington Nylon 66), I could go on...

For many, messing with springs and internals are half the fun, look at all the AR lockwork items items out there, even entire trigger-groups! Trust me when I tell you this is NOT about more than one shot at a time, I'm an FFL and used to be an NFA (class III) dealer, I have LEGAL full-on... What this IS about is trying to arrive at a better trigger-pull than the stock rifle, 11lbs is miserable.

I've come to think the heavy trigger pull design is a band-aid for no trigger return spring in front of the lock. What this thing REALLY needs is a grip safety that blocks the triggers motion, then the trigger pull could be light without risk of discharge when dropped...
 

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abh3,
Sorry if I implied too much towards your modifications, it wasn't intended to offend, just stop the conversation a little short. Afterall, it is the internets, and undoubtedly someone would come along and ask what "other" stuff can be done. Good luck with the trigger, but like I said, it is a battle rifle and I'd say that there aren't any 3lb triggers in the field on M4's, as it'd be very dangerous. There are quite a bit of aftermarket materials available for the AR platform, but I think that those things are really there to make an AR something that it's not, a precision rifle. Now, that being said, if you've got a 24" bull barrel, flat topped AR and you are using it to pop ground hogs at 300 yards, get all the trigger mods a person can handle, but if you are using the AR for a practical shooting course, I'll go behind the truck and watch from there, in the event someone trips and drops their rifle with a 3-5 lb trigger. There's a time and place for it I guess, but a lot of people can pervert what you are asking into illegal activities, and I'd hate for them to say "Well, I read about it online from this guy named soandso at fnforum.net" Sorry, it's my overprotective nature springing into action.

Zhur
 

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Discussion Starter #7
No problem and no offense taken, I guess I should be more specific as to where I'd like to go with the FS2K. I sure don't see it as a target rifle though it should be capable of some seriously good shooting with the right ammo, much like many M4orgeries out there which are what it will inevitably be compared to. It should also be superior to the M4 with fast follow-up shots at close range by virtue of balance, recoil characteristics, etc. My experience so far is that the trigger is what is holding it back in both applications, I have to use some serious concentration to keep at 2" at 100yds and accurate close range double-taps seem impossible, both relatively easy tasks with my 'beater' AR carbine though I'm sure familiarity helps. :? In a nutshell, I'd hoped a smooth 7-8lb trigger would be a reality one day...

What I wasn't expecting was this drop/fire issue, it sheds new light on the heavy trigger pull and really calls into question if it's practical to mod the trigger at all... Maybe just slap an Aimpoint or Eotech on it and let the SOB get closer! :-D
 

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i guess an 11lb trigger pull wouldnt much matter when on full auto. theres an f2000 for rent at my local range. i wonder if that heavy pull will be noticeable when the weapon is on full "joy."

of course its $60 to rent and $20/mag..... :roll:
 

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This drop issue was discussed somewhere else before, can't remember where. Evidently the bolt leaves battery in a drop before the hammer falls, takes the firing pin out of range of the primer. Test was done with primed cases.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thank God... I wasn't trying it with a primed case but probably will. I had wondered about that, the carrier is moving out of battery slightly on impact. I've heard stories all my life about the 'drop on the butt' scenaro, many designs are fine, others aren't so friendly! I thought that was something to investigate given what I'm trying to do...

I've looked around for some slightly lighter springs to experiment with but selection is limited, next stop is Wolff... Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

In the mean time, I've ordered an Eotech for the FS2K, to hell with the 10 ring, I'll take 'center of mass' from now on! The Leupold 1.5-5 is headed for an 18" AR build sometime in the near future, FS2K is as neat as it can be but will never overcome 30+ years of AR...
 

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I’m in the same boat. I modified everything else and am happy…but that trigger pisses me off!!! “Battle rifles” are made with heavy triggers because rank and file soldiers do not have the training or experience to use light triggers and LE are far more worried about an officer having an ND then their guys making clover leaf groups in a perps 10 ring.
Unless they are just messing around on the weekends sport shooters are going to run the lightest trigger they can and maintain reliability. A lighter trigger, faster drop equals better accuracy, there is NO amount of “training” to get the same results with a heavy trigger, you can only go so far.
I’ve taken the FS down to tacks several times and buffed the trigger rails to a polish but it didn’t help. I stoned the connecting surfaces of the hammer, sear…and made them smooth…no help. The problem is the sear reset springs. They are most likely twice as strong as they should be. I’m not going to start cutting coils but will take one out and send it to Wolf and say “Give me a dozen to these specs but run them 2lbs lighter each time.” Like a 1911 pack, 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10lbs… and just run with them.
Now I have not taken the hammer pack apart, but sounds like you have abh3, so how do we do it? I pushed with a punch and got nothing so stopped in case the metal pins were molded into the plastic and I break the whole thing.
I don’t know about your drop test…I’m not dropping anything on purpose and it wouldn’t make me sleep any less at night either way. I’d say…”Don’t drop the weapon”? Lets figure out how to fix this F&%$ing trigger!!! Those sear springs look pretty conventional; I’m thinking a trip to the hardware store might come up with something. Let’s skin this ape!
I need the springs OUT first; the it’s a matter of finding alternatives.
 

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Update...

Talked to FNH parts department today (800-635-1321 option #4)... they don't have a list of parts they will send you, you just have to tell them what you want and they tell you A) if you are allowed to have it. i.e. if it is a factory installation part or if they will sell it to you. and B) What the price is.

The "hammer pack" which is what they call the entire trigger control group (the white plastic group that slides out of the back) is $225, the piston is $35 and the firing pin is $95 ( I have the exact prices in the car but these are close)

Soooooo...... seeing how I already voided my warranty(making it way super cool!!!), (I also run with scissors, eat before I swim and pull my sisters hair) what I'll do is order up another trigger pack, keep it stock with no mods and jimmy the other till we get a reliable trigger pull that isn't more than my AK. BTW I shot my Bulgarian SLR-95 today (also NOT stock and voided the warranty "Oh noooooo!!!) and the former evil communist "Peoples Republic of 7.62x39mm” was more a pleasure to shoot than the FS2K...(almost as accurate) Damn commies!
Make a combat gun that doesn't jam and doesn't feel like you are climbing a chain link fence with your index finger!!! How dare they!!!

I will keep this updated. Give me time to get springs and range time...this is not my full time job... making non-factory modifications to my FS2K is!!!!! :p BTW I don’t call it reliable till I put 1,000rds through it. And yes, I know what the difference is between various types of malfunctions so I won’t call a light primer strike a problem caused by the moded trigger.
And yes mother, this is by no means meant as a test ground for multiple rounds per trigger pull. Full auto is worthless in AW anyway; you are far better off with accuracy, bullet placement and re-load speed and proper use of cover/concealment than standing in the street like Rambo.
I am interested in improving accuracy and therefore bullet placement.

"You kids be careful...you'll shoot your eye out!!!"
 

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Given the choice, I would grab a select-fire weapon over a semi-auto only variant any day. BTW, I like slicing the pie myself. :?

PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH
 

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Trigge pull remedies

What I did with my trigger is to take it appart, and note carefully where every sliding surface touches another. I got a piece of 1000 grit wet or dry sandpaper and I glued it to a stick. If you look carefully, you will see that these surfaces are not smooth but have a king of matte or rough surface finish. I carefully sanded these surfaces smooth. Then I took out and polished th trigger rods that operate the trigger pack. If you decide to do this, the first thing to do is to remove the pin that works the spring loaded breech cover. I also took a small fine file and filed the rear portion of the hammer, not on the surface that touches the sear, but the back of this surface that controls the length of pull before the hammer releases. This gives me a kind of 2 stage pull. I DID NOT touch the springs in any way.I would not reccommend doing any of this as it voids the warranty and it could be very dangerous. Upon doing these mods, I got the pull to a reasonable level. I don't have any problems with the hammer falling during drop tests. I merely smoothed out the surface finish. PLEASE be very carefull, and remember that any of this could result in slam fires or accidental discharges.
 
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