[jim diesel]

Don't know if this is the right place to post this, but anyway, for those that may be interested, here goes...

After agonizing for days over what glass day/night sighting device to buy for my FS2Ks, to supplement the iron sights, I settled on the Trijicon Tri-Power (TX30) and the ARMS 22M68 Throw Lever Ring. I didn't really want to spend $1000+ on a sight that would give me the ability to target at ranges beyond (what I believe is) the reasonable accuracy of the gun/shooter, and wanted something that would work with, and without, batteries. And, after a few hours of searching through pages of Google results, I found the TX30s for $399.95 from www.botac.com ...most everybody else wanted $500+.

I received the optics/mounts today, and thankfully, I am not dissappointed. In fact, I got more than what I expected.

I liked the idea of three illumination methods (hence the name "Tri-Power"), but I was concerned about losing the ability to quickly/easily switch back to iron sights...that's why I went with the 22M68 mount. What I really wanted was something similar to my Armson OEG with the iron sight peephole in the base. I was thrilled to observe - after mounting - that I am able to co-witness the iron through the glass...most excellent! Plus, I don't have to fold down the rear peep to use the glass reticle...it's clearly visible with your cheek at a more comfortable position on the stock. To use the iron, just put your cheek back down and you're good to go.

After mounting/leveling/adjusting the glass, I was horrified to see that the reticle illuminator (in battery powered mode) inside the TX30 tube is VISIBLE down range of the business end...yup, a nice tiny red beacon. But then, after reading the manual a little closer, I saw the battery mode has 20 brightness settings...6 for night and 14 for day. After resetting to the lowest level, I found the 6 night settings are virtually undetectable at distances beyond several feet, but as soon as you hit level 7 and up it's a whole different story. I would imagine that if NODs are being used, the Tritium alone would provide sufficient illumination, however I have not checked that yet.

Unfortunately, according to Trijicon, the screw-in ARDs are not available yet, so I'm considering contacting Tenebraex to see if they have something I can slip over the end for now.

Anyway, those are my initial observations until I get a chance to try them out at the range. At this point it has exceded my expectations.

Jim

 

[bonebreak2000]

I ordered a tri power from botac last week and they still have yet to ship it... :/

But yeah its going on a SBR PS90. For the FS2000 I still would want something like a 4x acog. I am using a leupold on mine now. Post some pics so we can see this mount with the iron sights.

 

[Fick]

I have a Tri Power on my AR. I'm sure you noticed that the objective is threaded. You might want to send Trijicon an E-mail and ask them if any of their existing kill flash accessories will work with the Tri Power.

 

[bonebreak2000]

They definately do.

 

[bonebreak2000]

Well I finally got my order in from botach and I am pissed. I think they sent me a used returned scope. It came in the case with opened battery packages under the form. The trituim cover has a broken end on the cord. More than that the optic isnt clear at all and looks slightly slanted. At times the chevron seems clear but other times it just looks like a blur.

Jim, did your scope come with mounting rings? I only ask be cause mine did not even though the manual states it was supposed to come with one.

Time to call botach and ***** at them about this and the "HK" USP mag they shipped me that isnt made by HK...

 

[ShipWreck]

I hate to say it - but Botach is very, VERY hated by online gun entusiasts.

See here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179222&highlight=botach

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52308&highlight=botach

And, this one goes back to 2005:

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34193&highlight=botach

And, that's just 3 of the TONS of threads on all the various forums. I wouldn't buy anything from them.

I hope U get this worked out!

 

[jim diesel]

Bone,

I bought 2, and both kits were complete, and the scopes appear to be working properly. Each kit came with a TriPower, one mounting ring, a lens pen, paperwork, 4 batteries (unopened), fiber optic cover, and scope sock. Pretty sure that was everything, I don't have them in front of me.

FYI about TriPower TriPower ARD (KillFlash)...
Talked to Trijicon yesterday as Tenebraex had not responded to my email request. They (Trijicon) just started shipping them to distributors last week, and the part number is TX15...they run around $30-$40, if you can find them in stock anywhere. I ended up ordering directly from Trijicon.

Bone, it's a VERY nice scope, I hope you get things worked out...I am EXTREMELY glad I went with the TriPower!

Jim

 

[jim diesel]

Well, it's a good thing I qualified my last post with "appear".

Received the ARDs today, so, I brought out the scopes to install them. OH, TOO BAD, won't fit! One of the scopes was assembled at Trijicon by Magilla Gorilla...the objective lens retaining ring had been threaded in on an angle. When I installed the scope I didn't even notice it, but when viewed from the front, 6 o'clock is in almost a 1/16" farther than 12 o'clock. I can't see how they couldn't have heard the threads screaming on that one! If I hadn't attempted to install the ARD, I probably would have never found it, the image wasn't noticably effected.

Gonna call Trijicon tomorrow about getting a replacement, tout suit.

Jim

 

[jim diesel]

And the saga continues...

Talked to Trijicon Customer Service, they say the objective retaining ring is supposed to be canted (in at the bottom), but the ARD should still fit. They also said people have sent them back thinking there was a manufacturing defect, but in fact it's supposed to look misthreaded. I said, "if that's true then why won't the ARD screw in, the KillFlash bottoms out on the high side before the threads can even connect?"

Gonna have to check the one that accepted the ARD to see if it measures the same all 'round. If it does, it could be a manufacturing process problem yet to be discovered at Trijicon, previously undetected until the release of the ARD last week. I've been in Manufacturing now for 25+ years and it wouldn't surprise me.

They didn't have any TX30s in stock, so getting a quick replacement was impossible. Botach is closed for the Jewish holiday yesterday and today, so I'll have to wait till tomorrow to call them about a replacement.

More to follow...

Jim

 

[ShipWreck]

Good luck man! That kind of stuff is always frustrating.

 

[David Slam]

I hate to say it - but Botach is very, VERY hated by online gun entusiasts.

Agreed. I had nothing but trouble with them. Orders that were never shipped, wrong items shipped, lies, excuses, and I actually had to "negotiate" just to get them to refund my money when they sent me the wrong flashlight! I don't know why I used them as many times as I did. Probably the low prices. I don't care if they are selling stuff below cost at this point. I just won't support thieves like that.

 

[bonebreak2000]

Yeah Ship I read about them before placing my order but I figured i would give em a shot.

Jim-- I am not sure if I am just gonna get a refund or a replacement. I am not too impressed with mine here. Then again maybe thats why someone returned it.... I also notice that the chevron is angled a bit and I have read other reports on some bad Tri Powers going out like this.

So mine came with no scope sock, no mount, opened batteries, broken cord on the tritum cover, and a couple nicks (could be the finish Im not sure). Also I notice that the trituim isnt bright enough even in full day ligh to see over a white or metalic object. I think Im just gonna get my 400 bones back and order an Acog from SOMEONE ELSE.

In fact I am thinking more about an aimpoint or eotech now. I may get the PS90 SBR... I'm still waiting to hear back. But I bought a M11 today and either way I'll be needing a red dot of some sort.

Yes I too called them yesterday only to find it was a holiday...

 

[Promoted Pawn]

Also I notice that the trituim isnt bright enough even in full day ligh to see over a white or metalic object.

even with batteries going my tripower washes under certain conditions

 

[jim diesel]

Ok, time for update...

Got home last night and pulled out the 2K. Sure enough, the 6 o'clock side of the objective (looking from the front) on the good TriPower is canted in about 1-2mm. That's good, in that now I only have one bad optic instead of possibly two.

Called Botac, all went well.

bone, that cover on the top is for the fiber-optic illuminator. The tritium is internal, and is for VERY LOW light conditions. The low illumination intensity makes it compatible with night vision. For instance, the AN/PVS-14 mil NOD has an Automatic Gain Control (as well as a Gain Limiter), not only to protect the intensifier tube, but to allow the user to move from brighter to darker areas and maintain the same relative image intensity. If the tritium reticle were too bright, that could make it difficult, if not impossible, to adjust the AGC and GL correctly. It's almost identical in brightness to the Trijicon OEG Max on my AR, so for me there was no surprise.

Jim

 

[Big Elf]

I went with the trijicon route this time around with both my Black and Green FS 2000's.

Expensive but worth every penny. The TA31RCOM4 went on my Black FS and the scope rocks with the red chevron and tritium cross hairs for evening use. The gun aquires the hit everything mode real fast and looks bad ass on the space gun.

The Green FS, received the new Tri Power. The TP with its basic 1x power optic still keeps the red chevron well litt on battery or with the light collector in use during day light hours keeps it simple and productive.

I like the system over the Aimpoint M3 which allows two extra sight systems for different enviroments is a big bonus. I decided to use the M68 type ARMS flip lever mount which allows easy access to remove the sight and add different sights such as the Leupold CQB 3x or Eotech based on range or field goals.

 

[Promoted Pawn]

Jim, what mount are you using? Do you have a pic? I have a Tri-Power with ARMS throw lever and it doesn't co-witness with the iron sights.
Here is a picture of the mount I have.

 

[jim diesel]

Promo,

Same as you...ARMS 22M68 Throw Lever Ring.
If I mount it all the way to the back, co-witnessing is pretty easy. If I put it all the way to the front, it's borderline usable. It gets worse with the ARD...unusable in the front, just usable if in the back.

Jim

 

[Promoted Pawn]

That's funny, can't get it to work for me. The rear peep is just a tad too low.

 

[jim diesel]

Just sat down at the PC, fired up a Partagus Black Label, and figured it was time for an update...

I received the replacement TriPower today...it's a no-go. Like the one it replaced, it is as it should be in all ways except for the inability to install an ARD. I am fairly confident at this point that Trijicon either had a manufacturing issue, or there was a minor design change recently. It turns out both units that won't accept the ARD have serial numbers that are only 4 away from each other; they are in the 2400s. The good unit is in the 3500s.

At this point I am not going to send it back to Botach, as the next replacement may be from the same lot; with all likelihood yielding the same result. I will contact Trijicon tomorrow to see if they'll admit to any known issue, and get an RMA # so they can fix it. I really like the TriPower and am willing to horseball around getting it right.

One thing kind of irritated me about Botach though. After talking to 2 customer service reps, they passed me to the manager (owner?). He agreed with my plan forward, but he then went on to ask me what weapon I was mounting the optic to.... :-x OUT OF BOUNDS BABY!!! I don't know about you guys, but for me that question was out of line, it's none of his business, and it's not the subject of that conversation. Based on that one question, I probably will not go back to them in the future. Perhaps I am over reacting, but that just rubbed me the wrong way. He also talked to me like he was doing me a favor by letting me put cash in his pocket. Funny, out of all that had happened, the last minute of conversation with the manager ruined it for them.

More to follow.

Jim

 

[bonebreak2000]

I talked with Botach yesterday and they are sending me a label to ship my items back that I am not happy with. This tri power being one of them. I have decided to just get a refund and not a new scope after reading your posts. The tritium is just too feint in it. The acog for instance is a lot brighter in the TA31 series. I am going to oder both and Acog TA31F and an Eotech 551 and try both on the FS2000. What I'll most likely end up doing is putting the Acog on the FS and an Eotech on the PS90 or something else

The lack of brightness is the most unimpressive thing to me about the tri power. I know it has batteries too but it just seems the standard optic should have collected more light.


GL to ya. I hope you get it all sorted out.