FN Herstal Firearms banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,615 Posts
Hmmmm... This can't possibly be true!? The M4!? Unreliable? No way. The Scar 16 can't possibly be a better weapon because the army didn't think so. What gives?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LebbenB

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,731 Posts
The 5.56 [caliber] SCAR was a failure from the viewpoint of the men,
I wish he would elaborate on that.

He said its 5.56-caliber bullet is too small and the gas-piston firing system is prone to stoppage. He said better weapons — the German Heckler-Koch G36 and Russian AK-74 (a version of the venerable AK-47) — use superior firing systems.
Huh?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
I agree with you CPTdaz. I had to reread that part over and over again becuase it doesn't make sense and there is not enough explanations behind the quotes. The whole article is just a bunch of he said that and this and sounds like a gossip/political article rather than informative explanation on the faults of the M4/M16 rifle and the needs of the current military. The wikipedia article does a better job of explaining the crticism of the 5.56 and the m4 with backed up sources better than this article.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,104 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I agree with you CPTdaz. I had to reread that part over and over again becuase it doesn't make sense and there is not enough explanations behind the quotes. The whole article is just a bunch of he said that and this and sounds like a gossip/political article rather than informative explanation on the faults of the M4/M16 rifle and the needs of the current military.
I read it on the Internet. Must be true.:-D
 
  • Like
Reactions: P-Factor

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
So the article says the M4 is fine for the regular army, but special forces need a tuned up m4 or better rifle. Got it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
641 Posts
I keep my M4 clean and properly lubed up cause I'm an anal gun nut. Now some of the younger E-3/4s in my squadron who are not gun guys, those are the ones whos rifles jam up constantly at the range and then blame the gun.

I will admit that I would much rather have a gas piston powered rifle in the field though, hell I'd deploy with my 17S if they'd let me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Hellfire, that's all fine and dandy, but in a prolonged combat situation, you're not going to be able to clean and lube your gun. Or in certain situations, like a dust storm during combat. But IMO this is just part of the mission statement of the "assault" rifles, versus the "battle" rifles. M1 Garands and M14s dont need to be cleaned and oiled to be reliable, but they are also heavy.

This article does raise some questions though, as daz pointed out. And it also needs to make it clear that some of the complaints made are actually against the 5.56 round's ineffectiveness, not the rifle itself. But again, I think that's part of the assault vs battle rifles argument.

The comment about our weapons being lousy since WW2 is also questionable, because I never heard any complaints from the soldiers about the M3, various M1s (thompson, carbine, garand), the BAR, and M2 were considered superb weapons for their time, I know the biggest complaints against the 1911 were the recoil and weight compared to other pistols, but it was never questioned on its reliability or performance.

Also the remark that a flak vest stops a 5.56 is laughable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,600 Posts
Anybody catch this part in the article

"Scott Traudt, who advised the Army on how to improve the M4 a decade ago. Today, he is a special adviser at Green Mountain Defense Industries of Strafford, Vt., a Colt competitor that is manufacturing a new rifle that it hopes to sell to special operations."

hmmm so source for the article saying the M4 sucks also happens to be a guy trying to sell a new gun to the Army.... surely he is not shading the position at all
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
228 Posts
This article is a total hit piece by a rag of a newspaper that is full propaganda or just plain wrong and misleading information.

The M16 at it's start had it's issues, and that was rectified. If you do your research there where nay sayers and issues with the M1 Garand when it was adopted and it has been credited with helping to win WWII.

The problem with the M4/M16/M9 or any U.S. military small arms is a lack of proper and routine maintenance at a unit and above level, magazines treated like gold and not replaced when needed, cleaning to the point of damaging said system, lack of proper lubrication, and a whole bunch of urban myth and wives tales (i.e. internet) that are perpetuated by Drill Sergeants, NCO's, and Jedi Mall Ninjas.

There is nothing wrong with the M16/M4 platform and there has been a **** ton of dead bad guys from the platform, it has it's strengths and weakness just like any other weapons platform. The person behind the trigger needs to know this and take it into account.

And the whole notion that 5.56 is not an effective round is pure BS, it all boils down to one thing, shot placement!!!!! There are 3 ways to kill a man, head shot, heart shot, or he bleeds out; if you fail to properly hit the first two then you need to reapply more accuraly placed bullets until he stops or dies.

Based on my 25+ years training and experience in the military and law enforcement, I have seen a lot of dead folks.

A good majority of those dead folks where from gunshot wounds and quite a few of those people were shot with a .22lr and were dead before they hit the ground.

I have also seen guys shot with "man stoppers", like the 45 ACP, and lived to tell the tale. You know that 230 grain projectile that can pick-up a 200 pound man and throw him through a window or "take his arm clean off", regardless of that pesky thing called the law of physics.

But don't listen to me or the internet or the media, do your own research and ask folks in the know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
This article is a total hit piece by a rag of a newspaper that is full propaganda or just plain wrong and misleading information.

The M16 at it's start had it's issues, and that was rectified. If you do your research there where nay sayers and issues with the M1 Garand when it was adopted and it has been credited with helping to win WWII.

The problem with the M4/M16/M9 or any U.S. military small arms is a lack of proper and routine maintenance at a unit and above level, magazines treated like gold and not replaced when needed, cleaning to the point of damaging said system, lack of proper lubrication, and a whole bunch of urban myth and wives tales (i.e. internet) that are perpetuated by Drill Sergeants, NCO's, and Jedi Mall Ninjas.

There is nothing wrong with the M16/M4 platform and there has been a **** ton of dead bad guys from the platform, it has it's strengths and weakness just like any other weapons platform. The person behind the trigger needs to know this and take it into account.

And the whole notion that 5.56 is not an effective round is pure BS, it all boils down to one thing, shot placement!!!!! There are 3 ways to kill a man, head shot, heart shot, or he bleeds out; if you fail to properly hit the first two then you need to reapply more accuraly placed bullets until he stops or dies.

Based on my 25+ years training and experience in the military and law enforcement, I have seen a lot of dead folks.

A good majority of those dead folks where from gunshot wounds and quite a few of those people were shot with a .22lr and were dead before they hit the ground.

I have also seen guys shot with "man stoppers", like the 45 ACP, and lived to tell the tale. You know that 230 grain projectile that can pick-up a 200 pound man and throw him through a window or "take his arm clean off", regardless of that pesky thing called the law of physics.

But don't listen to me or the internet or the media, do your own research and ask folks in the know.
I agree. A lot of BS in that article. The M4 is fine. Yes, I like the Scar better but there is nothing terribly wrong with the M4. Every weapon system ever designed has some people spouting off that it is a piece of crap. You have to take these articles with a grain of salt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,109 Posts
HA!!!
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top