[acmeraptor]

So I finally got notice back from the ATF for my form1 request after almost exactly 2 months.

Instead of having a nicely approved form1 with a tax stamp affixed, I got both of my copies returned with a notice saying that in order for it to be approved I need to send in "Proof of Trust" with the description being the actual Declaration of Trust (including any attachments mentioned in the trust).

Is this something new or did I read the guides people have put out incorrectly? I included a Certification of Trust in the original letter but now they want the Declaration as well? It doesn't seem right to let them know all of the holdings the trust has under it.

I guess I'll send out the required stuff on Monday, but I was hoping to get some insights or comments from everyone else that has tried to SBR their PS90s.

 

[acmeraptor]

seems there's been some recent discussion about this on another forum.

http://www.ak47.net/lite/topic.html?b=8&f=36&t=303221

 

[gregg877]

After reading that thread, seems those who have sex with bats want to see schedule A, not the actual declaration of Trust. Still, that is odd, since the certification of trust is supposed to be the proof that the trust actually exists and is legal.

Have you spoken to the examiner thats handling your application? My question, is what if you just established your trust, intend to only use it for NFA weapons, and schedule A has nothing in it yet? If this is the case with your situation, I'd ask about that.

Gregg

 

[acmeraptor]

After reading that thread, seems those who have sex with bats want to see schedule A, not the actual declaration of Trust. Still, that is odd, since the certification of trust is supposed to be the proof that the trust actually exists and is legal.

That's the trouble with an unwritten policy that a legal department can concoct. However this requirement may have been lifted. A friend of mine who also put in his form1 two weeks after me did not get his returned for not including the Declaration. Either it's not required anymore or he had an uninformed examiner, who knows.

Have you spoken to the examiner thats handling your application? My question, is what if you just established your trust, intend to only use it for NFA weapons, and schedule A has nothing in it yet? If this is the case with your situation, I'd ask about that.

I did not speak with an examiner but just sent the whole damn thing after blacking out the names of people in it other than mine. I assigned the PS90 to the schedule A the day I formed the trust so it wasn't blank but yea even a blank one seemed like that would be fine.

In any case I recieved the approved form1 two weeks after I sent it back in. It's already been SBR'd and is SOOO freaking sweet. I also have a form4 pending for a can. Same thing, I included the Declaration and sched A just to avoid any possible headache down the road since they've already seen it and it only will have NFA items for now.

 

[gregg877]

Glad to hear you go that all squared up. I'm in the process of establishing a trust for the same reason, will let you know how I make out.

Gregg

 

[Promoted Pawn]

What is a fair price to have a lawyer set up a trust for NFA purposes?

 

[BreakerDave]

What is a fair price to have a lawyer set up a trust for NFA purposes?

Setting up a revocable living trust is fairly cookie cutter (document plus notarized signature). When people do the trust stuff for NFA items the idea is that the thing is a real trust for all types of assets, not just NFA stuff. Since you can name the trust whatever you want, do not name it something like "My Bang Bang Revocable Living Trust." You want it to look like everyone else's trust. Typically, people use their name or initials as part of the trust's name.

For purposes of the law, the trust is a legal entity (like a business entity, i.e. corporations, LLC, etc.) that holds actual title to the assets. It is administered by a trustee for the benefit of the trust's beneficiaries. In your case, the trust would own it, but you would be administering it for your own benefit.

I'll have to look for it, but I think I have one of the generic trust documents that you can use as a template to form yours. You'll have to change names where it says to insert names, but you should be able to get through it fairly easily.

 

[Promoted Pawn]

Thank you. Would it be a bad idea to some of my firearms on the title 1, I mean schedule A?

 

[BreakerDave]

Thank you. Would it be a bad idea to some of my firearms on the title 1, I mean schedule A?

When you're doing a trust or really any activity you have to think about what your goal is. Whether or not you should do it is tied to whether it serves any of your objectives. The reasons for going the trust route with NFA stuff is pretty clear. What benefit are you seeking by placing other firearms in your trust?

Regarding your Schedule A, there is some question as to whether or not it needs to be submitted with the application. Apparently, some examiners are requesting them and some are not. I know of instances where people have been accepted without a Schedule A and others have been rejected without a Schedule A. I have heard some people submit a Schedule A where the other items are redacted (blacked out).

 

[acmeraptor]

What is a fair price to have a lawyer set up a trust for NFA purposes?

I used a Quicken program called Willmaker Plus 2008. It's not quite as good as the free you'll get by using a template but I figured it would come in handy for the other types of legal documents it can help to create.

 

[Furyataurus]

Does having a trust allow you to buy full auto weapons? Or is that only a corporation?

 

[acmeraptor]

I know a guy that got a full auto by using a trust, but you are still limited to the post '85 ban.

Short of a repeal of the ban, I don't think an individual will ever be able to own a newer full auto than what we can get now.

 

[ShipWreck]

After reading that thread, seems those who have sex with bats want to see schedule A, not the actual declaration of Trust. Still, that is odd, since the certification of trust is supposed to be the proof that the trust actually exists and is legal.

Have you spoken to the examiner thats handling your application? My question, is what if you just established your trust, intend to only use it for NFA weapons, and schedule A has nothing in it yet? If this is the case with your situation, I'd ask about that.

Gregg

I'm doing this now, and see people saying U need to send both, and some say you do not. Still not sure myself. Guess I'll justs end it all in to cover my bases.

 

[acmeraptor]

Yea I don't know if a definitive answer has come back but I just sent my whole declaration with names other than mine blacked out. I guess what they really want to see is the Schedule A. But I didn't feel like wasting a few more weeks from a delay in processing because of it.

 

[ShipWreck]

I'm gonna just go ahead and do that (send it all). I don't care if they see any of the names, personally.

 

[acmeraptor]

yea i didn't really care if they saw the names either but i've had a few corporate audits lately and the mentality was don't give them more than what they ask for. seemed like a good idea with big brother also.

good deal ship, and good luck

 

[Madhouse]

I know that transfer approvals still come, even with blacked out items on the Schedule A.

:?

 

[Normalizer]

Okay, total noob question here...

I've done the private individual route for NFA stuff twice before, first for an Uzi and second for a suppressor. Not a big deal to do it again, and I am considering doing it asap in order to get my PS90 turned into a SBR and then get a can for it as well while we still can.

What exactly is the benefit of going the LLC route? Cheaper, faster, less paperwork, liability, etc? Any drawbacks?

And I've never really thought about it way long term before but what happens to my stuff when I die? Assuming the law remains what it is now of course.... Does the BATF just immediately swoop in and take it, and if so is it a total loss to my estate/llc?

 

[Madhouse]

...

What exactly is the benefit of going the LLC route? Cheaper, faster, less paperwork, liability, etc? Any drawbacks?

And I've never really thought about it way long term before but what happens to my stuff when I die? Assuming the law remains what it is now of course.... Does the BATF just immediately swoop in and take it, and if so is it a total loss to my estate/llc?

In Houston we have to do a Trust or LLC because the dumbass CLEO's won't sign off for NFA items, and a Trust or LLC does away with the need for their signature.

For you, I assume you need to name someone in your will that is legally capable of having NFA items, I'm not sure if they would have to pay stamp fees though.

For someone with a trust, you name a beneficiary in the trust, they get the trust when you die.

 

[Normalizer]

I wonder if I could name my dog as a bennefficciary?

She spells better than I do anyway.