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Discussion Starter #1
An idea came to mind that I'd like to submit for consideration. It may be off the wall, however.

Recently, I purchased an FNP-45 USG.

With the added firepower of the FNP-45 over my Ruger P90, having roughly twice the capacity got me thinking about some things. For instance, is there any reason not to load different bullets in the same magazine, such as staggering .45 ACP FMJ with .45 ACP JHPs? It seems to me that in a defensive situation that this might be advantageous.

Am open to ideas.

Thanks,

Flex
 

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I kind of get what you're saying (FMJ's for barrier penetration), but I would personally take a mag loaded of FMJ and on of hollow points. If the gun didn't like hollow points, I'd just go with FMJ's.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I kind of get what you're saying (FMJ's for barrier penetration), but I would personally take a mag loaded of FMJ and on of hollow points. If the gun didn't like hollow points, I'd just go with FMJ's.
Yes, you basically got to my underlying point about barrier penetration. A friend suggested to me that in a car jacking situation that having FMJs in the gun would more easily penetrate a car door and keep the bad guys from stealing my car... i.e., shooting through the car door might be necessary depending on the circumstance.
 

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JHP's will go right through them and if it was like most car jacking, it would be very close, so deflection due to glass at close range would be minimal. It might actually affect the JHP's ability to open upon hitting the b.g. but I wouldn't really worry about that.
 
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The negative to staggering bullets is never knowing which is ready to fire and which is waiting.

Most bonded jacketed hollow point bullets are very capable of barrier penetration and reliable expansion.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The negative to staggering bullets is never knowing which is ready to fire and which is waiting.

Most bonded jacketed hollow point bullets are very capable of barrier penetration and reliable expansion.
How about with lesser calibers, such as 9mm? I'm thinking 9mm 115 JHPs vs 9mm 115 FMJ.
 

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Ballistics penetration is dependent upon bullet mass and muzzle velocity.

When a jacketed bullet impacts a barrier, the bullet will transfer some amount of mass to the barrier. When a bonded bullet impacts a barrier, the bullet will also transfer mass but to a lesser extent than the jacketed bullet.

The 9mm 115gr is a poor choice for barriers because it cannot afford to lose mass and still have effective penetration. To my knowledge, only the Barnes XPB 9mm 115gr bullet offers good barrier penetration. This bullet is solid copper and not copper over lead core.

In a side-by-side test into bare gelatin, with muzzle velocity being equal, I would expect the 9mm 124gr FMJ round nose to travel further than a JHP. When the JHP impacts the gelatin it begins to expand and thus loses velocity much faster due to drag than the FMJ round nose.

In a side-by-side test through a barrier into gelatin, with muzzle velocity being equal, I would expect the 9mm JHP design to punch a cleaner hole and retain more mass. By contrast the FMJ round nose would expend more energy and mass to create the hole. My guess is the result might be a similar depth of penetration.

The 9mm 124gr FMJ round nose is required for military use by the Hague Convention. Domestic agencies and LEOs not under these requirements use 124gr JHP or 124gr bonded JHP.
 

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Flex,
I agree that this always seemed like a good idea to me. I carried alternating type rounds in my spare mag for some time. That is until several weeks ago when I had a change of mind about this. I was shooting a bowling pin match @ the indoor range. I carried several mags for my G21SF in my shooting bag, the spare and primary mag remain loaded but separated from my 'match" mags. I was asked to be a timer so I was a bit distracted having to hurry to reload my match mags between shooters instead of taking my time after my stage was completed. When it was my time to shoot I hurried back to my bag and reached inside not looking and picked up my spare "carry mag" by mistake. Now I usually shoot 230gr either HP or Ball loaded down a bit to about 820fps or so for pins. Knocks the pins off the table and somewhat less flip to speed things up. However my carry load alternates 230gr +P and 185gr +P. So when the shot clock dings the first pin explodes off the table but the recoil and blast throws me off thinking the pistol had KB'd. So I take a second glance at it, seems ok so back onto pin # 2, the table top just under the pin erupts and the pin spins down but not off the table and again I was thinking the pistol had KB'd because of the muzzle blast, WTF. Again I flip the pistol on its side and give it a quick once over and it appears intact but now I'm thoroughly distracted because of the difference in muzzle blast and the apparent difference in elevation impact of the bullet into the table. Now I do try to shoot a bit low into the pins , but not into the table. Not until I had cleared the table fully expecting my pistol to KB my hand off with each shot, did I notice when clearing the remaining rounds that they were my carry ammo, not my match ammo. The end result of this episode leaves me eating this 12 second relay and 5th place overall, out of the money. The moral of this to me was, its easy to anticipate when you are fully aware of the difference in bullet strike and muzzle blast when you are practice shooting this ammo carry method. But this experience opened my eyes to the distraction it can cause in a moment when your focus should be on front sight, grip and trigger pull. Same ammo should all go in approximately the same place on target. Not guessing or trying to remember what type round is up next and where will it hit in relation to the previous one. I went home and reloaded my carry mags with all same type ammo in each mag.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Tailgunner, very helpful!

Well, now that we're down to the difficulties that could visit someone who staggered rounds as I asked about, as your rounds shoot way differently, what I had in mind was something a bit different.

My experience with 9mm in my G17 shooting Remington UMC 115gr FMJ and JHP is that they shoot the same, as far as I can tell. No discernible difference in point of impact or recoil or anything. So staggering them would produce basically the same results in terms of actual shooting, but different results when the bullet hits the target. Granted these are not high power +P rounds, but truth be told, I'm plenty good with both of them, and they will get the job done.

It turns out that Remington also makes the UMC line of cartridges for 45 ACP in both FMJ and JHP versions. I haven't tried either of them yet, as my gun is new and I'm still shooting the 230 gr. FMJ stuff I bought at the gun store when I picked it up and another brand of 230 FMJ that was acquired since then.

I saw a Youtube comparison of 230 JHPs from Remington and Speer (I think...) and the Remington would not be a friendly visitor in a bad situation. It mushroomed just fine and looked wicked. While there are plenty of more powerful offerings on the market with better bullets and so on, one of the UMC 230 grain JHPs would be plenty adequate, I'd wager.

Have you thought about something like this?

Thanks,

Flex

Flex,
I agree that this always seemed like a good idea to me. I carried alternating type rounds in my spare mag for some time. That is until several weeks ago when I had a change of mind about this. I was shooting a bowling pin match @ the indoor range. I carried several mags for my G21SF in my shooting bag, the spare and primary mag remain loaded but separated from my 'match" mags. I was asked to be a timer so I was a bit distracted having to hurry to reload my match mags between shooters instead of taking my time after my stage was completed. When it was my time to shoot I hurried back to my bag and reached inside not looking and picked up my spare "carry mag" by mistake. Now I usually shoot 230gr either HP or Ball loaded down a bit to about 820fps or so for pins. Knocks the pins off the table and somewhat less flip to speed things up. However my carry load alternates 230gr +P and 185gr +P. So when the shot clock dings the first pin explodes off the table but the recoil and blast throws me off thinking the pistol had KB'd. So I take a second glance at it, seems ok so back onto pin # 2, the table top just under the pin erupts and the pin spins down but not off the table and again I was thinking the pistol had KB'd because of the muzzle blast, WTF. Again I flip the pistol on its side and give it a quick once over and it appears intact but now I'm thoroughly distracted because of the difference in muzzle blast and the apparent difference in elevation impact of the bullet into the table. Now I do try to shoot a bit low into the pins , but not into the table. Not until I had cleared the table fully expecting my pistol to KB my hand off with each shot, did I notice when clearing the remaining rounds that they were my carry ammo, not my match ammo. The end result of this episode leaves me eating this 12 second relay and 5th place overall, out of the money. The moral of this to me was, its easy to anticipate when you are fully aware of the difference in bullet strike and muzzle blast when you are practice shooting this ammo carry method. But this experience opened my eyes to the distraction it can cause in a moment when your focus should be on front sight, grip and trigger pull. Same ammo should all go in approximately the same place on target. Not guessing or trying to remember what type round is up next and where will it hit in relation to the previous one. I went home and reloaded my carry mags with all same type ammo in each mag.
 

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Flex,
You are correct in that same weight and character will print close enough, and proved by range time on targets. I related my results that while I would adjust at the range when there was no hurry to shoot or distraction from thinking about the load, but being under a timer or more stressful situation proved different result than expected. So i think your premise of alternating equal ballistic but different construction bullets, will not show the same discrepancy in where they print, as mine did. Bullet placement is critical but more effective when desired penetration and effect ( wound channel) is also present. I have seen lots of different results on people shot with lots of different stuff first hand. There are anecdotes for just about every practical carry caliber. Shoot what you can hit with and after that work on different bullet types until you are happy. If you are like me, that will keep you busy for the next 45 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Tailgunner,
Good advice, thanks!

Flex
Flex,
You are correct in that same weight and character will print close enough, and proved by range time on targets. I related my results that while I would adjust at the range when there was no hurry to shoot or distraction from thinking about the load, but being under a timer or more stressful situation proved different result than expected. So i think your premise of alternating equal ballistic but different construction bullets, will not show the same discrepancy in where they print, as mine did. Bullet placement is critical but more effective when desired penetration and effect ( wound channel) is also present. I have seen lots of different results on people shot with lots of different stuff first hand. There are anecdotes for just about every practical carry caliber. Shoot what you can hit with and after that work on different bullet types until you are happy. If you are like me, that will keep you busy for the next 45 years.
 
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