FN Herstal Firearms banner

Vp9 or fns9

  • Vp9

    Votes: 14 38.9%
  • Fns9

    Votes: 22 61.1%
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

3,731 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: goretro77

1,192 Posts
Totally agree besides the fiveseven and fnx45 tac

Having specific HK pistols and FN rifles is a very great place to be sitting.

An article that changed many lives is a great read.
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » Why I Like the LEM <--- link

After seeing the good parts of the FNX-45T, I married "her" and even bought her some clones, as my family did too (that was a lot of faith).
After seeing the crazy side of her, it was long slow divorce.

At the range, members do pass around opportunities to try each other's range gear.

...and that "look".
It was on too many faces.
It was the look of "what, this is the same company that makes the scar"?
People were shocked to see such a great shooter (FNX45T) biff with the same relative piece of metal.
That piece of metal both sticks like no other in the collection and also denies a fast magazine insertion "with that on one angle".
One piece fudged the FNX period, and they really need to address it.
It's smooth as silk in the other areas, except for the need to buy an o-ring to keep the thread cap of a loss in the dirt.
Sadly, It was easier for many to drive a lighter pistol from the holster and place a good shot faster.
The 15rd FNX mags were hand loaded and putting more stress on fingers vs time in comparison to the series of 10RD HK45 mags presented before them. The old fingers and HK45 were clearing the 50rd ammo box transfer task and kept rolling out the lead.

The DA/SA has a twist on it and it's a real savage.
Read on.

STREET TRIGGERS (Law Enforcement Modification).
I have been making the case for the last couple of years that I think the HK LEM (particularly the LEM variant popularized by firearms trainer Todd Louis Green that is essentially a Light LEM set up with a heavy trigger return spring for more positive reset of the trigger) trigger set up is the best “street trigger”. So, why the LEM over other systems?
Many years ago I came to the conclusion that the Colt 1911 was the finest close quarters gun-fighting pistol ever made, and if I had to take a pistol to a gunfight, the Colt 1911 would be my choice, and a lot of that is due to the trigger. Of course the issue was that my job involved taking a lot of people prisoner and capturing and detaining people at the end of a gun while working around a bunch of people who didn’t need to be shot. So being in the prisoner taking business and not the gun fighting business, I did well carrying a DA/SA pistol. I started on a big bore revolver, went to a SIG P220, carried a 1911 on a proactive crime suppression detail with using a HK P7 when work vice and for undercover stuff, went to the HK USP45 F for both patrol and SWAT, then moved to the Glock 9mm for Air Support and stayed with the Glock 9mm till the end of my career as a patrol duty pistol. I also carried a Glock or 1911 a lot in the private sector as well as a DA/SA HK45C.
I currently carry HK LEM guns almost exclusively. Essentially, I have carried pretty much all of the various trigger systems out there, and have investigated, been present at, or been in shootings with most of the systems as well. So I do not base my opinions on theories, but first hand observations.

The L.E.M.:
I like the L.E.M. Here is why. It is a consistent trigger. It has all of the take up of the DA, without the weight and effort. The trigger goes back to the same long take up location when the finger comes off the trigger. Essentially, it is like de-cocking without having to use a de-cocker, just a simple removal of the finger from the trigger to its register location. Lots of take up and both tactile feel that the trigger finger is on the trigger, and a visual input from the hammer. That same visual and tactile input is also there during the reset and every other movement of the trigger-you can always see the hammer moving with the trigger.

The negative, is there is a lot of trigger movement going on. This is an issue when pure speed is the goal. It is not an issue when you have to think and justify every single movement of the trigger when employing the gun against people. All that tactile and visual trigger input is a good thing for most people, and gives them a chance to “stop” when something is going on that should not be. I think the best example of what I like about the L.E.M can be summed up with a L.E.M shooting that involved one of my guys.

The officer was working evenings in patrol. He got a call of a domestic disturbance at a 7/11. When he arrived, the male suspect had left walking from the location down a wide main, residential and business, street that intersected the major thoroughfare that the 7/11 was on. The suspect was walking along the sidewalk opposite the flow of traffic carrying a box. The officer drove his marked cruiser up behind the suspect the wrong way in traffic in the #2 lane (closest to the sidewalk) with his window down and attempted to contact the young man. He took off running down the sidewalk and began digging in the box he was holding while the officer pursued in the car.

The officer got the indication that the suspect may be trying to obtain a weapon and began to draw his HK USP45F LEM pistol. The suspect began to withdraw a 6” barreled .357 magnum revolver. The officer (while steering with his knee) drew his pistol, rotated it over and around the steering wheel as a guide (exactly as taught from theITTS curriculum on vehicle work) so he never crossed his own body, got a two handed grip coming out the window.
The suspect began to turn while still running and leveled the revolver at the officer. The officer planted the sights squarely on the center of the upper body and made a controlled single press of the trigger. The round hit dead center, and the suspect skidded face first into the pavement of the sidewalk “like the rhino in the 300 movie” (exact words of the officer-we had great success with the Federal 230 gr. +P HST).
The officer now had to regain control and stop his vehicle, call for assistance, holster, get out of the car, draw and regain control of the pistol and hold the suspect at gun point with a flashlight until help could arrive, while continuing to provide verbal information using his support hand to operate his radio, then holster again, after securing the suspect.
That is how this stuff happens. How many opportunities to maybe get a finger on the trigger early? Think about having to get a safety off during the draw while making a force decision and driving a vehicle with your knee? Think about having to consciously trying to de-cock or safe the pistol, while regaining control of that vehicle one handed , while you now have to safely holster at speed. Now thinking about exiting that vehicle and starting all over again with the stress and multi-tasking post shooting.
The LEM allows that officer to simply exercise the most basic of putting his finger on the trigger and off the trigger with no other action necessary, and there is some significant leeway built into that trigger for small errors due to distraction or other actions. If we look at the “shooting” part of the above problem, it was fairly simple and a very small portion of the equation, where the mindset and manipulations issues were huge.

End comment.
HK LEM pistols
to be specific.
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.