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Where will the toss up States land?
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Polls are usually wrong 9 times out of 10. The same guy's that do that investment banking math make up these polls.
I never understood how they can ask 600 people their opinion, in a population of a million in an area and tell me they know what's gonna happen.
If that was true, then the Republican nominee would be Mayor Guilin and the Dem's would be Clinton. My local weatherman has better odds of being right than these guy's do, and he's only right 1/2 the time.
I never understood how they can ask 600 people their opinion, in a population of a million in an area and tell me they know what's gonna happen.
If that was true, then the Republican nominee would be Mayor Guilin and the Dem's would be Clinton. My local weatherman has better odds of being right than these guy's do, and he's only right 1/2 the time.
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21,553 Posts
Well, I can speak for Michigan and unfortunately say Obama. There's Detroit and basically the big cities. The suburbs around Detroit will be very close, possibly for McCain. The suburbs around Grand Rapids will be mostly McCain as well as for most of the west side of the state. Grand Rapids itself will be for Obama along with Lansing and the majority of the Upper Penisula (Marquette in particular). Historically, college areas are democratic and suburbs and rural areas are republican.
If the west side of the state has a good turnout, McCain has a chance, but if the east side mobilizes, he doesn't stand a chance.
If the west side of the state has a good turnout, McCain has a chance, but if the east side mobilizes, he doesn't stand a chance.
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630 Posts
we need to arrest the lawmakers that refuse to give america her life blood back. our econmy runs on oil and they ( congress) has teamed up with the sierra club to tie our hands behind our backs and hold us hostage. time to send pitchforks to congress and let those do nothings know we want our country back
Allowing unfettered offshore drilling is a huge gamble. I don't know how many of you'll have been out and around offshore rigs, but I have and they aint enviromentally cool.
Lets say for argument sake that they allow drilling inside of the 50 mile range. Put a bunch of rigs off of Pennsacola Fla, now look at the map of the ocean currents and tell me what would happen if accident were to occur? It would effect all of Florida, Georga, North and South Carolina.
How close do you think a foreign sub can get to our coast?
Lets say for argument sake that they allow drilling inside of the 50 mile range. Put a bunch of rigs off of Pennsacola Fla, now look at the map of the ocean currents and tell me what would happen if accident were to occur? It would effect all of Florida, Georga, North and South Carolina.
How close do you think a foreign sub can get to our coast?
Offshore drilling isn't simply a "Sierra Club" Issue. The State of Florida and its tourism industry are a big part of the battle. The amount of money to be lost in tourism from offshore drilling is more than offshore drilling could ever produce. You as a Florida resident should be just as concerned about having the coast line and fisheries destroyed. If there were an oil spill, commercial fishing would be put out of business in all the effected areas. I not talking about multinational commercial fishing, but of Florida residents (born and raised) who have relied on fishing as their way of life and income. People who have been Grandfathered into commercial fishing and not some guy from New Jersey who just moved down here. Oil is important, but food is more important. The recent oil crisis is a sign of how our dependency can have negative effects (plus that fact that it is a fossil fuel and will eventually be completely used up). Time to evolve our transportation for efficiency.
I am a Floridian and avid saltwater fishermen. Screw drilling off my coast.
Rant off
I am a Floridian and avid saltwater fishermen. Screw drilling off my coast.
Rant off
Well, when it gets too expensive to buy fuel for your boat, you'll be an on shore fisherman. This downturn in oil prices isn't permanent, wait until the snow flies... mark my words.
50 miles is quite a ways, 100 miles is purt neer invisible. It's like any other advancement, how many people thought that telephone/power poles were an eye sore? Chop 'em down, it'll affect tourism. Ohhh those nasty cell towers, it'll affect tourism, knock 'em down.
In my experience, tourists are too focused on what is happening within 100 feet of them, not what is happening 100 miles from them. They are too interested in where they should have dinner, not what's churning up oil 50 miles out. Do a little experiment, find something 50 miles from you and take a look... I bet you can't discern any features without using optics. It'll be a blob on the horizon, not a smoke churning, fire belching, dragon of doom and death. 50 miles is a looooooong ways.
Zhur
PS. In fact, I'd bet that at 100 miles the curvature of the earth would probably obscure it anyways... I'll have to do the math.
50 miles is quite a ways, 100 miles is purt neer invisible. It's like any other advancement, how many people thought that telephone/power poles were an eye sore? Chop 'em down, it'll affect tourism. Ohhh those nasty cell towers, it'll affect tourism, knock 'em down.
In my experience, tourists are too focused on what is happening within 100 feet of them, not what is happening 100 miles from them. They are too interested in where they should have dinner, not what's churning up oil 50 miles out. Do a little experiment, find something 50 miles from you and take a look... I bet you can't discern any features without using optics. It'll be a blob on the horizon, not a smoke churning, fire belching, dragon of doom and death. 50 miles is a looooooong ways.
Zhur
PS. In fact, I'd bet that at 100 miles the curvature of the earth would probably obscure it anyways... I'll have to do the math.
I have a sailboat
Again I would like to point out, the issue is they WANT to drill within 50 -100 miles or the coast. At the current speed of the Gulf Stream(around 4.9 Knots), if a rig is 50 miles off shore and has an accident, in 10 hours it just hit your shore. All the marine species between that accident and the shoe are dead, dying or have gotten the hell out of dodge. Now I don't know about you, but not many people want to swim in oil with dead fish on vacation.
Fla has no state taxes because of tourism. If an accident were to happen, Fla would go belly up with the fishes.
Additionally Fla, SC and NC have around 6-9 hurracanes hit a year. You'd be better off putting wind mills off the coast to capture the 130mph winds. Coastal winds are constant in Fla. On solar, why not put solar pannels in death valley?
How many oil rig incidents have you heard of? Any major ones? I think there's a higher risk of accidents shipping the black crude here than there is a platform incident.
I realize there is danger, but if people can't afford to travel to your state because oil and gas cost too much, there won't be any tourists anyways.
As to wind turbines, people would call them an eye sore too. I say line every damn highway in the nation with turbines. As far as Death Valley, I think they should, but inevitably someone would worry about some horny toad that might get bothered, so you just can't do that now can we? Either way, we have to make some trade offs.
Zhur
I realize there is danger, but if people can't afford to travel to your state because oil and gas cost too much, there won't be any tourists anyways.
As to wind turbines, people would call them an eye sore too. I say line every damn highway in the nation with turbines. As far as Death Valley, I think they should, but inevitably someone would worry about some horny toad that might get bothered, so you just can't do that now can we? Either way, we have to make some trade offs.
Zhur
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4,479 Posts
There are 4000 rigs in this area alone.
http://bcclist.com/2008/09/01/gulf-of-mexico-oil-rig-map/
Cuba is letting Russia Drill so I don't see why we should refrain.
http://www.redcounty.com/placercountyca/2008/08/cuba-irks-us-with-plans-for-oi/
Drill baby drill.
http://bcclist.com/2008/09/01/gulf-of-mexico-oil-rig-map/
Cuba is letting Russia Drill so I don't see why we should refrain.
http://www.redcounty.com/placercountyca/2008/08/cuba-irks-us-with-plans-for-oi/
Drill baby drill.
I thought this was about lowering the price of oil?
Do any of us see the royalties? I don't currently hold any stock in oil, so I'm getting left with the same oil prices and the possibility of my State getting covered with oil.
Are you sure that the oil workers will be American?
Could they be outsourced?
Do any of us see the royalties? I don't currently hold any stock in oil, so I'm getting left with the same oil prices and the possibility of my State getting covered with oil.
Are you sure that the oil workers will be American?
Could they be outsourced?
dtheman,
Please site one source where there's been a catastrophic oil deck spill. I spent about 20 minutes on Google trying to find one. There have been small accidents, people falling off the deck, spills that were contained (because oil floats on water), but never to the point where it ever covered a coast line, and there are 4000 PLATFORMS in the Gulf already!! Now, if I were to ask how many ships have spilled their cargo that ended up all over a coast line... that'd be a different story. Especially being that it's the current way we get our oil from overseas. Should we stop that too? Being that it is documentably more dangerous and risky than oil platforms? Just saying that "there'll be a spill and vacationers will hate us" doesn't make it a fact.
Zhur
Please site one source where there's been a catastrophic oil deck spill. I spent about 20 minutes on Google trying to find one. There have been small accidents, people falling off the deck, spills that were contained (because oil floats on water), but never to the point where it ever covered a coast line, and there are 4000 PLATFORMS in the Gulf already!! Now, if I were to ask how many ships have spilled their cargo that ended up all over a coast line... that'd be a different story. Especially being that it's the current way we get our oil from overseas. Should we stop that too? Being that it is documentably more dangerous and risky than oil platforms? Just saying that "there'll be a spill and vacationers will hate us" doesn't make it a fact.
Zhur
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15,559 Posts
Hell, like all of the ships in the ocean routinly dropping their sewage and such into the water - there is no telling what goes on on an oil rig that we never know about.
Anyway - I'm all for drilling. This crap about "we won't see the benefit for 10 years' has been going on for more than 10 years. If we had started 10 years ago, we'd see the benefit today.
I have read that there is actually the potential for MAJOR drilling in the gulf alone, but supposedly many places are tapped and then nothing happens because of a lack or offshore drilling rigs.
Between the coal we have and a lot of untapped oil, we COULD become a lot more self sufficient if action was taken...
Anyway - I'm all for drilling. This crap about "we won't see the benefit for 10 years' has been going on for more than 10 years. If we had started 10 years ago, we'd see the benefit today.
I have read that there is actually the potential for MAJOR drilling in the gulf alone, but supposedly many places are tapped and then nothing happens because of a lack or offshore drilling rigs.
Between the coal we have and a lot of untapped oil, we COULD become a lot more self sufficient if action was taken...
Ship,
I work in the oilfield business. We build plants, compressor stations, scrubbers, pipelines and the like. This 10 years crap is nonsense. We just completed a refinery in 2 years. It's been operational for 1. The finish work, paint, insulation, trim all that crap is what takes so long. The plant can run and make money in about 1 to 1.5 years from breaking ground. The 10 years thing is a bold faced lie to keep people focused on the Brown Double Chirping Grasshopper or some other stupid animal that might get affected.
They stalled all the windmills out here because the sage grouse might have to find a new nest, for hells sake. I say shoot the damn sage grouse, feed it to the workers building the dang windmills and call it good.
Animals will adapt, if they don't, sorry Charlie, theres a few less ear wigs and grasshoppers this year.
I work in the oilfield business. We build plants, compressor stations, scrubbers, pipelines and the like. This 10 years crap is nonsense. We just completed a refinery in 2 years. It's been operational for 1. The finish work, paint, insulation, trim all that crap is what takes so long. The plant can run and make money in about 1 to 1.5 years from breaking ground. The 10 years thing is a bold faced lie to keep people focused on the Brown Double Chirping Grasshopper or some other stupid animal that might get affected.
They stalled all the windmills out here because the sage grouse might have to find a new nest, for hells sake. I say shoot the damn sage grouse, feed it to the workers building the dang windmills and call it good.
Animals will adapt, if they don't, sorry Charlie, theres a few less ear wigs and grasshoppers this year.
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