Would U buy it again?
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78 Posts
I would still buy it again. It is light. It is ergonomic so far. I just wish that it was less expensive than $2000.
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138 Posts
There's a reason why it's designed like that. That mag release was designed for ease of use with heavy gloves, whether they're winter gloves or chemical suit gloves.dumapus said:
Yes, the mag well gasket doesn't allow the mags to drop freely, but it sure helps to keep sand, dust, and other foreign particles out of there.
Not to get off track...I understand why the gasket is there, but is it a value-added design improvement or is it a bullpup specific design requirement? No gaskets on the AR design. I guess what I am asking is.....is it just an "innovation" or is it something that is specifically required by the design of a bullpup rifle?
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my FN. I am just curious....
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my FN. I am just curious....
I got two theories on mag gasket.
1.) European over engineering. One reason it might cost 2000.00
or, which I think more likely
2.) It forces you to pull the mag out, and since the mag is then in your hand you might just stick it back in your gear to be used another day. Kinda of a waste not - want not thing. :wink:
1.) European over engineering. One reason it might cost 2000.00
or, which I think more likely
2.) It forces you to pull the mag out, and since the mag is then in your hand you might just stick it back in your gear to be used another day. Kinda of a waste not - want not thing. :wink:
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114 Posts
True the mags are not drop free as long as the gaskets are in there. You can be like me and remove them (which i regret doing) but what's really the point. Sure they drop free but to be honest the magazine changing operation is more in depth than with an AR which is one of it's very few drawbacks. In an AR you use your trigger hand to press the mag release button while your free hand is already grabbing a fresh mag. This operation however is not possible in the FS2k. The mag change for this is done by holding the gun with your trigger hand and hitting the mag release with your other hand while pulling out your old mag so you don't have a free hand to be readying a fresh one with. People worrying about a drop free design must have more hands than i do. I see it as a nonissue.
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121 Posts
I use 40 dollar HK mags in mine and regardless of the design I'm not dropping any mags. I don't mind the design at all. Of course I think I am just used to the AUG design and that helps but even if you are an AR guy I still think the design is fine.
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17 Posts
Thanks to all of you and your insight, I picked up my first FS 2000 from Tanner's. Your information has been invaluable!
Thank you all and I am glad this is my first post!
Thank you all and I am glad this is my first post!
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114 Posts
Query: Why would you do that?
This seems to be the main reason people are upset with the fs2k, which I personally cant understand. I refuse to shoot anything other than premium ammunition and have never had even the slightest hiccup. I've seen too many firearms become damaged or temporarily inoperable because of "cheap" low grade stuff being used. I tend to equate this phenomenon to buying a brand new Ferrari and using 87 octane instead of a recommended higher grade. Sure if i drove a beat up Honda Civic it'd be 87 all the way and not care. But I digress, bringing me back to the question which is the subject of my reply,Why would you do that? Why buy a relatively expensive rifle which varies in price from roughly $1800-3000 and shoot cheap ammo risking damage to it as opposed to, lets say some other 5.56 nato or .223 rem. which can be attained for as low as $600?
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147 Posts
Re: Query: Why would you do that?
I mean, HUH????
I'm guessing your definition of "premium" ammo is the civilian stuff made for woodchuck shooting?
Maybe i'm not following you, but are you suggestion the military spec ammo is junk? NATO stamped SS109 is no good? Huh? Swiss military ammo is no good? Huh? Federal XM193 is no good? Huh? Lake City SS109? Huh?moonglorious61 said:
I mean, HUH????
I'm guessing your definition of "premium" ammo is the civilian stuff made for woodchuck shooting?
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114 Posts
ok
First let me start off by saying that my last post was in no way meant to offend you. Secondly I would like to clarify that I would not nessasarily classify the ammunition that you have listed as "junk" but I also wouldn't recommend it. Military grade ammunition is usually set to a higher pressure which can effect cycling rates, and often times is manufactured by a lowest bidder contract which will use less than clean powders. On top of that "Failure to detonate milsurp ammo" is already a topic of discussion in the issues section. I say leave the mil spec ss109's in the mil spec rifles, yet even the our armed forces have choosen to ditch it in favor of a more suitable round. Currently all branches of the US Military purchase their match 5.56mm ammunition from Black Hills. You have stated that you are using cartridges loaded with 62gr. tungsten tipped penetrators which I have myself shot extensively to less than fovorable results. On the subject of the 55gr. Federals I can't say because i haven't shot them though their weight is a little low in my opinion for the 1x7 twist of the fs2k. And to answer your question, yes, my definition of "premium" ammunition is the "civilian stuff" made for woodchuck shooting... It's also identical to the rounds used to drop tangos at 500 meters, our military's Mk 262 mod 0 and mod 1(with and without cannelure). It was developed to offer increased accuracy, range and improved terminal performance over the standard 62-grain M855 load (which is like what you're using). Before you start hating your gun switch the ammo you're using to something else. You already have a lot of money into the purchase of it alone so why not enjoy it.
First let me start off by saying that my last post was in no way meant to offend you. Secondly I would like to clarify that I would not nessasarily classify the ammunition that you have listed as "junk" but I also wouldn't recommend it. Military grade ammunition is usually set to a higher pressure which can effect cycling rates, and often times is manufactured by a lowest bidder contract which will use less than clean powders. On top of that "Failure to detonate milsurp ammo" is already a topic of discussion in the issues section. I say leave the mil spec ss109's in the mil spec rifles, yet even the our armed forces have choosen to ditch it in favor of a more suitable round. Currently all branches of the US Military purchase their match 5.56mm ammunition from Black Hills. You have stated that you are using cartridges loaded with 62gr. tungsten tipped penetrators which I have myself shot extensively to less than fovorable results. On the subject of the 55gr. Federals I can't say because i haven't shot them though their weight is a little low in my opinion for the 1x7 twist of the fs2k. And to answer your question, yes, my definition of "premium" ammunition is the "civilian stuff" made for woodchuck shooting... It's also identical to the rounds used to drop tangos at 500 meters, our military's Mk 262 mod 0 and mod 1(with and without cannelure). It was developed to offer increased accuracy, range and improved terminal performance over the standard 62-grain M855 load (which is like what you're using). Before you start hating your gun switch the ammo you're using to something else. You already have a lot of money into the purchase of it alone so why not enjoy it.
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147 Posts
Re: ok
Yeah, the Black Hills ammo is sweet and it is used by the military in special applications (doesn't this make that milspec also -- it has an NSN, etc), but the VAST majority of rounds put down range by the US military and the remainder of NATO forces is SS109 spec (although XM193 still finds its way into training cycles). Quality MIL-SPEC ammo (none of the surplus I buy is junk from third world ****holes) is designed to go boom reliably and in EVERY other 5,56 I have, it does. Three ARs and a SIG 556 for the SS109; usually with no worse then like a 2% failure rate. Hell, I've taken the ammo that didn't detonate through the FS2000 (after multiple light primer strikes) and then loaded it in the Colt AR and it goes boom every time (except for that 2% failure rate that just comes natural to ammo). The XM193 (Swiss spec. or Federal production) I run through my HK93 because of the 1/12 barrel and I run it in my 7.5" AR because it seems to prefer it to the SS109 -- again -- ZERO issues with light primer strikes. Those 77 grn. Black Hills rounds are COMPLETE overkill for the majority of shooting that the majority of FS2000 owners will do.
The FS2000 is a civilianized version of the F2000, which is made to NATO specs to handle NATO spec ammo. The reason the firing pin change was implemented was because people were firing soft primered civilian ammo through a rifle that was designed to fire NATO spec ammo. You have the issue exactly backwards on this one, FN implemented the change because Johnny Knucklehead (not you -- Blackhills is good stuff) was firing what ever Bass Pro had in stock and the pin gun didn't like the soft primers (or the soft primers didn't like the heavy pin -- whichever), not because there was an issue with MIL-SPEC ammo. FN simply did not think it through. In attempting to protect Johnny Knucklehead they simply executed a poorly designed fix, which eliminated the ammo the rifle was designed to fire.
I'm not knocking you, clearly you are familiar with the ammo issues and I recognize I'm not talking to some ill-informed internet commando, but again, I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. There is nothing wrong with any of the ammo I use, the problem is with the firing pin system on the FS2000.
Bro, that's all ridiculious!moonglorious61 said:
Yeah, the Black Hills ammo is sweet and it is used by the military in special applications (doesn't this make that milspec also -- it has an NSN, etc), but the VAST majority of rounds put down range by the US military and the remainder of NATO forces is SS109 spec (although XM193 still finds its way into training cycles). Quality MIL-SPEC ammo (none of the surplus I buy is junk from third world ****holes) is designed to go boom reliably and in EVERY other 5,56 I have, it does. Three ARs and a SIG 556 for the SS109; usually with no worse then like a 2% failure rate. Hell, I've taken the ammo that didn't detonate through the FS2000 (after multiple light primer strikes) and then loaded it in the Colt AR and it goes boom every time (except for that 2% failure rate that just comes natural to ammo). The XM193 (Swiss spec. or Federal production) I run through my HK93 because of the 1/12 barrel and I run it in my 7.5" AR because it seems to prefer it to the SS109 -- again -- ZERO issues with light primer strikes. Those 77 grn. Black Hills rounds are COMPLETE overkill for the majority of shooting that the majority of FS2000 owners will do.
The FS2000 is a civilianized version of the F2000, which is made to NATO specs to handle NATO spec ammo. The reason the firing pin change was implemented was because people were firing soft primered civilian ammo through a rifle that was designed to fire NATO spec ammo. You have the issue exactly backwards on this one, FN implemented the change because Johnny Knucklehead (not you -- Blackhills is good stuff) was firing what ever Bass Pro had in stock and the pin gun didn't like the soft primers (or the soft primers didn't like the heavy pin -- whichever), not because there was an issue with MIL-SPEC ammo. FN simply did not think it through. In attempting to protect Johnny Knucklehead they simply executed a poorly designed fix, which eliminated the ammo the rifle was designed to fire.
I'm not knocking you, clearly you are familiar with the ammo issues and I recognize I'm not talking to some ill-informed internet commando, but again, I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. There is nothing wrong with any of the ammo I use, the problem is with the firing pin system on the FS2000.
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114 Posts
well then
I can't see how any of what I said was "ridiculious", and no semantics won't work, but you are correct about the firing pin, which we already knew... The only thing is you have problems with your gun and I don't. I'm just trying to help you out. You're obviously an established shooter so why torture yourself with the issue. If that stuff shoots in your AR's and SIG, save it for them and find something else for the FS2000. I've been there too, trying to shoot ammo out of a gun that just hates it, and it's really not worth the hassle. Think of yourself as the guy walking into the doctors office and saying "Hey Doc, it hurts when I do this" and i'm the doctor responding with "Well don't do that".
I can't see how any of what I said was "ridiculious", and no semantics won't work, but you are correct about the firing pin, which we already knew... The only thing is you have problems with your gun and I don't. I'm just trying to help you out. You're obviously an established shooter so why torture yourself with the issue. If that stuff shoots in your AR's and SIG, save it for them and find something else for the FS2000. I've been there too, trying to shoot ammo out of a gun that just hates it, and it's really not worth the hassle. Think of yourself as the guy walking into the doctors office and saying "Hey Doc, it hurts when I do this" and i'm the doctor responding with "Well don't do that".
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