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Discussion Starter #1
I came across this photo (see below) of a hard chromed TRP full rail operator recently...

Springfield makes a custom shop full rail operator... Basically, it's like a Springfield Professional, but with a full rail. However, I would change the checkering to 25 LPI, serrate the rear slide, go with fixed sights, and get the gun hard chromed instead of getting Black T.

It's $2995 - $200 more if I wanted a 9mm model.

I always wished I had bought one of these TRP Operators when I had the chance. Now, I do have the chance to custom order one, and it would be comparible to a professional. However - the ONLY thing stopping me is the night sights. Springfield has NOTHING in stock with white circles around the tritium. I would HAVE to have those silver circles.

If not for that, I think I would have put my order in today....

But, $3k is a lot of money. Its this vs a Nighthawk Talon which is $2600 in 9mm if I go with the stock finish, and around $2900 if I hard chrome it. So, the price is comparible...

Would you buy this or a Nighthawk? I'm thinking that the white circles around night sights will wear away over time anyway. NH tells me that the ones they use typically do not do this. Past experience with trijicons, however - do show me that they wear a bit. So, with the silver, this would not be an issue.

However - my final though - if by some oddball reason - if I had to sell this gun one day... Would I get a higher % back on a Nighthawk compared to a super custom Springfield?

(remember, this pic is just a TRP model - I also do not care for the grips - but the gun is awesome in hard chrome)
 

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I debated whether I should even tell you this but a friend of mine sold one of these full length rail Springfield 1911's (in .45 ACP) to a local gun shop for $1200 and he felt like he made out like a bandit. The shop turned around and sold it a short time later for $1800.

As I am sure you are aware, there are some people who really like the full length rail version and they are willing to pay a lot for it but a full length rail 9mm version of a 1911 is a niche within a niche. I'm not saying you couldn't find people to take it off your hands if you needed to sell it but the further you deviate from the standard design, the less broad appeal it will have. Also, at $3,000 the people in the market who have and are willing to spend that kind of money on a pistol is a small subset of 1911 enthusiasts. One of my friends once told me, "You customize a gun for your personal shooting preferences. Do not expect others to share them or to be willing to pay for them."

If you have to sell either gun used, you are going to lose a bit of money. It's not that hard to pick up gently used Wilson CQB 1911's and Nighthawk Talon 1911's (in .45 ACP) for $1500-$1600. I know a guy who sold a Wilson CQB with eight 47D mags for $1550 (shipped) in order to fund some other purchase/project. If you take away the mags, he sold the pistol for $1400 and that's a great deal for the buyer.

My question to you regarding the Springfield is since it's a custom gun at a custom gun price, can you supply your own sights (the ones you like) and have their shop install them?

Getting back to your question, if I had to choose between the Springfield or the Nighthawk Talon, I'd go with the Nighthawk. Unless your heart is set on the Springfield with its full length rail, I think the Nighthawk is a better deal. Additionally, holster selection for the Nighthawk Talon will be easy whereas holster selection for the Springfield with its full length rail is likely to be more of an adventure.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I went by my shop again on the way home and fondled some nighthawks. I just prefer the feel of the Springfield. I have an MC Operator, and I had a PDP Defender Springfield for many years, and I regret selling in in 2003.

I looked at the Novaks sights on the Nighthawks. All but one had much of the white circles already almost rubbed off. So, I can't quite buy the explanation that Nighthawk tells me. These are $2500+ new guns and there is hardly any dot around the circle tritium.

Once that is gone, then there is nothing around the tritium. When comparing those "rubbed" sights to some Springfields in the shop - at that point, they look the same.

I have ALWAYS wanted 1 of those full railed Springers. I think I've made up my mind. The wait is 10 months, but I think I want a 9mm one...

Nighthawks.. I lusted after for years... But, I only looked at photos...Once I held a few, the illusion sorta wore off.They don't feel that fantastic to me - and when spending $2500+ on a gun, I better find it amazing. Tonight, I went and held several Nighthawks again, and I'm not feeling it.

The only other gun I really liked was the Ed brown Special Forces - but some incidents that recently came to light over their customer service (1 from a local guy who bought a Kobra from my local shop) did it for me. I'm not putting up with that.

Only the Ed Browns had the sights I really like. But, for the gun - Springers feel the best... I held a full rail Operator several times in 2003 - and I still regret buying that thing. With 25 LPI checkering instead of 20 lpi, that thing will be awesome....
 

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3K for a HANDGUN!!!!! are you insane, its not worth it IMO. You could buy a Springfield M1A Loaded rifle for $1600 and a PTR-91 for $900 and have money left over. Why the hell do you need a 3K handgun for? It does the same thing my $800 HK USP 9 and $510 FNP40 does: SHOOT. Why not get an FNP45, an HK45 and tactical lights/lasers for both pistols instead. Besides 1911's aren't worth the money. I don't understand why people pay over 1K for a 1911 and then SPEND more than they paid for it to upgrade/customize it, and then complain about the cost and the endless tinkering of the pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I can appreciate your point of view... At 1 time I may have agreed with you. But, I WILL be buying a 1911. It's just a matter of the one I will get/which one I want - Somewhere between $2500-$3000.

I've wanted a custom 1911 for a while - when I had the $ for my PS90 and all the gear, I debated if I should get the 1911 I've always wanted, or the PS90. I ended up with the PS90 (I sold a telescope, and a Beretta 90-Two that I won in a contest to pay for it).

I just sold an XD45. I'm just not a fan of polymer 45s. I have tried the M&P45, Xd45, Glock 45 and USP45 (fullsize)And, I have always wanted a hi end 1911. All of these don't even begin to compare to my MC Operator in myopinion. After I bought the MC Operator, I regretted not buying it BEFORE the XD45 - otherwise I never would have bought that XD (and I rented several polymer 45s before I bought the XD)

I just sold an XD45, PX4 Storm and Five Seven to help pay for this. None of these guns really grabbed me.

I've also always wanted a 9mm 1911.

As for rifles... I've never been a rifle guy - I've always preferred handguns. The PS90 was the 1st rifle I ever bought, and I love it. I thought maybe I'd get into rifles and tried buying 1 more. Didn't like it... I'm sticking with the handguns...
 

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Everything Fury just said plus:

When you pay that much money for a gun you can't really use it for fear of messing it up or lowering the value. Also you don't want to carry something like that for defense. To anyone who knows guns that is a work of art, to everyone else like a prosecutor, judge or jury it could be a tricked out killing machine. You could end up getting painted as the guy from Taxi Driver.

I do agree with Ship though - the Storm and Five Seven just aren't that inspiring. I would get a reputable 1911 minus the bling if it were me and put the rest of the money in mags and bullets.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well, the gun will just be a range toy. And, by hard chroming it - its going to be VERY duranble. I have several hard chromed slides on polymer guns. After years of carry, my P99c still looks awesome. So, I'm not worried about wear on this gun. It will stand up better than any other finish on a 1911.

But, even if I wanted to use it for defense or carry - the fullrail operator was pretty popular as a home defense and police gun when they were selling the cheaper version (the one pictured above). If I order this, it will have higher quality internals, just like the Professional model.

I was looking at getting a hard chromed 9mm bull barrel from Nighthawk anyway. For $200 more, I'd rather have this.

And, I've spent 6 weeks reading thousands of posts on both 1911 forums, reading tons of websites, and have pawed quite a few high end 1911s (even drove out of town to a high end gunshop in Houston this past Sunday). I had narrowed it down to the NH or this now, and after looking at NHs again this evening - I've just eliminated them...

All this time, I've been wishing I could get my hands on a full rail Operator. I was so, so close to buying one in 2003, and I ended up buying a Kimber instead. I made a mistake that day. I still wish I would have bought that Operator.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
devildoc said:
Kimber Custom TLE/RL II is a great choice also, just my 2 cents.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry - no Kimbers. I will never buy another Kimber. And, a Kimber is not quite the same as a $2k+ custom gun.

I have an MC Operator - I have a standard production 1911. Now, I want something custom.

Basically, after weeding thru Les Baer, RRA, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, and a few others... This is the gun. It is a bit more than I wanted to spend, however. Just a LITTLE bit. But, I'm at the point where I'm saying... THIS is the gun. Now, do I spend the cash or not....
 

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I guess if you like "tinkering" with 1911's then that IS your choice, but I just don't get what all the fuss is about. I'm never going to have to, knock on wood!!!!, adjust or change practically anything on my HK USP 9 or FNP40. The only thing I can see changing out MIGHT be the extractor. So far the only thing I've changed on my HK was adding night sights and changing it from V1 to V2 since I'm a lefty. I also plan to add Ameriglo night sights to my FNP40 also.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have an MC Operator that works 100% out of the box. ONly thing I am working on is adding a magwell - Its been sent out to eb refinished in a color to match the gun (black, instead of blue steel). After I got this, I sold the XD45 because I knew it was a mistake. Only 45s I like are 1911s...

 

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I think you have to be insane to spend 3 grand on a springfield
For that cash I would go with something like a ed brown, wilson, nighthawk etc.
 

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Ship, with the way you have been "cycling" thru guns, I'm not sure you could get your money back out of it.

Of course if this is a keeper for you than buy what makes you happy and don't worry about. The "value" of an item is not fixed. Value is what something is worth to any given person.

Your question, "Would YOU buy this?", no it's not worth 3 grand to me. I would much rather spend 1000 dollars on a Colt 1911 WWI Replica... or for three grand get three different Colt 1911's. I just like non railed guns better I guess.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/images/1911WWI.jpg

I still think my next "1911" will be a EMP or similar small 9mm.
 

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Furyataurus said:
I guess if you like "tinkering" with 1911's then that IS your choice, but I just don't get what all the fuss is about. I'm never going to have to, knock on wood!!!!, adjust or change practically anything on my HK USP 9 or FNP40.
Basically, the thing about a 1911 is that you can modify and tune it to your personal preference. It has a comfortable grip angle and you can change the grip with arched and flat Mainspring Housings as well as different grip panels so it sits in your hand perfectly. Then you can go to work on the trigger to get something so crisp and clean that you would look at your USP and wonder how you've been getting by all these years with its trigger. Of course there are other things you can do with the controls, sights, barrel bushing, magwells, finishes, different types of checkering and slide serrations, etc.

By the end of the process you can have what is the perfect handgun for you. If you are at a skill level where you can take advantage of the changes/improvements, you can put together some truly impressive groups and enjoy the feel of something that was made for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I've made up my mind - I'm buying it. Someone is out at Springfield for a little while - as 2 people have given me 2 different prices. As soon as they call me back and we square it away - I'm ordering it
 

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You surprise Ship. I seem to remember hearing you say that spending just 1000 dollars on a handgun was too much... now you're gonna triple that! :-D :-D :-D
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yea, I know. :p

I'll probably be waiting 10-12 months for this thing to come in. I hope to wrap it up today.
 

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You better get it before you are only allowed "One pistol per household...."
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ok, I ordered it - it will look similar to that above - but isn't a TRP - so, it won't have the TRP markings (like the one in that pic). Its a full railed gun comparable to a Pro.

It will also have a matte hard chrome like that in the pic. And, they agreed to order me fixed Novak sights with white circles afterall - so, I get what I want. All done - now the 10 month clock ticks away....
 
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