Would you shoot this ammo ?

17173 Views 22 Replies 14 Participants Last post by jhs27275, Dec 8, 2014

BOOMSLANG

Discussion Starter · Nov 20, 2014

So I'm on GB and find 1000 rounds of 45 ACP up for auction. Description as : 45 ACP 230 gr. FMJ match ammo, Mfg. by Natmil . Shipped in 100 round boxes so you can stock your shelves, 10 boxes per case. Picture shows open case with 10 boxes of 100 with name on box, black & white boxes, looks ok. I know of the co. because I got a few of their AR lowers when they started making them , dirt cheep @ 35 ea. I low ball bid and win auction for $238.00 + 36 to ship so $274 to the door, 27.40 a hundred, I'm thinking I did good. Big brown pulls in today and I walk out to the truck, standing at the door I hear the driver wrestling around midway back in the truck then hear this roar as the driver shot-puts the box to the front of the truck. He walks to the front of the truck typing on the clip board looks up and sees me standing there, yeah he thought I was going to drag him out, and said " man, that's heavier than it looks " I just give him the look, pick up the box and go inside. Does not look like the box I was expecting, this is 12" square and felt like a rag. My blood pressure is about 190 over 150 by now ! Flip the blade and open the box and stand there starring into the box that is like 4" deep with 45 ammo. Some brass, some nickel, some fed., some pmc, some with primers out past case, some with primers so deep you could use it for a shot glass. They even tore the return address off the corner of the shipping label. No boxes, no lot #'s just 45 ACP. Would you shoot this !!!

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DAWGfan1980

· #2 · Nov 20, 2014

Is it this stuff?

1,000 rounds of 45 ACP 230 gr. ?TMJ? RN ammunition Made in the USA.

This ammunition was manufactured in 2014 under contract for NATMIL, by Federal Armament LLC (dba FedArm), a Type 7 licensed and insured manufacturer. This ammunition is manufactured using a .451 diameter “TMJ” copper plated hardened antimony-lead core projectiles, which are swaged, plated, and re-struck in house by FedArm.
TMJ plated bullets have no exposed lead, thus avoiding lead exposure upon firing. They are individual sorted by weight to the nearest 0.2 grains to ensure match quality.
The cartridges use refurbished regulated military and police range only once-fired brass, which is acid washed, and processed to SAAMI specifications. Refurbished casings are electromagnetically inspected for thin walls and defects, along with individual visual inspection before and after loading.

Inside the cartridges only top quality arsenal grade powders and primers are used. Powder is dropped to +/- 0.1 grain accuracy to ensure the highest performance.

Velocity: Loaded to 880 FPS

Non-Corrosive Boxer Primed Reloadable Brass Cased

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Troublesx10

· #3 · Nov 20, 2014

I would inspect each one I would shoot--if they are good, sure

Reactions: 1

BOOMSLANG

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 20, 2014

Can you sell ammo with nothing to identify it by. I'm kind of concerned about the inerds, if you know what I mean, don't want no KB . I don't want to comment on the seller at this time.

vz58kid

· #5 · Nov 20, 2014

The irregular primer's sound dangerous and I would not use it but try to return or contact GB and cancel on Credit card payment!

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fmjblack

· #6 · Nov 20, 2014

If they are that inconsistent with seating the primers I would question how much consistency there is with the powder charges and cartridge OAL. At best, you will likely have some malfunctions due to the primers that aren't fully seated. At worst, you might have an overcharged round that KBs your pistol. Aside from the possibility of personal injury, you won't likely have much luck getting your pistol repaired if it is damaged by this ammo.

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BOOMSLANG

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 20, 2014

vz58kid said:
The irregular primer's sound dangerous and I would not use it but try to return or contact GB and cancel on Credit card payment!

I e-mailed the seller, he told me it's drop shipped and I can send it back on my dime and 15 bucks restocking fee. That puts me out $87. Thanks for the C.C. idea, I've been so mad I didn't think of that.

BOOMSLANG

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 20, 2014

fmjblack said:
If they are that inconsistent with seating the primers I would question how much consistency there is with the powder charges and cartridge OAL. At best, you will likely have some malfunctions due to the primers that aren't fully seated. At worst, you might have an overcharged round that KBs your pistol. Aside from the possibility of personal injury, you won't likely have much luck getting your pistol repaired if it is damaged by this ammo.

My concerns exactly, plus who could you hold responsible being no ID, guess just myself for shooting it. I didn't check OAL yet, I just had to get away from it for today.

IGC224

· #9 · Nov 20, 2014

If the ammo appears to be unusable or even dangerous, I would demand them taking it back and I would not spend another dime. It's not like you changed your mind, it appears to be questionable in use. Good luck, I hope it works out.

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djv38

· #10 · Nov 20, 2014

I'd start pulling bullets and check powder consistency, weight of the bullets, fix the primers etc. Sounds like a PITA to me.

This is one reason I don't buy ammo off of gunbroker.

Reactions: 2

Donnie

· #11 · Nov 20, 2014

djv38 said:
I'd start pulling bullets and check powder consistency, weight of the bullets, fix the primers etc. Sounds like a PITA to me.

This is one reason I don't buy ammo off of gunbroker.

That is what I would do too.

It also sounds like they are being deceptive by sending something different than the description and picture.

Reactions: 2

Talhoffer

· #12 · Nov 20, 2014 (Edited)

BOOMSLANG said:
Some brass, some nickel, some fed., some pmc, some with primers out past case, some with primers so deep you could use it for a shot glass. They even tore the return address off the corner of the shipping label. No boxes, no lot #'s just 45 ACP. Would you shoot this !!!

This right here would cause me to not trust it^^^^Sounds like someones bad reloads^^^ 45ACP is easy to double charge the powder and with the mix matched manuf. brass and primers jacked up..........NO, I would set the box to the side and see what recourse I had with the seller. The stuff your explaining sounds like russian roulette with your weapon and hands.
I don't trust someone else reloads, even companies like GA Arms I shy away from past first hand experience.
My opinion.

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BOOMSLANG

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 21, 2014

djv38 said:
I'd start pulling bullets and check powder consistency, weight of the bullets, fix the primers etc. Sounds like a PITA to me.

This is one reason I don't buy ammo off of gunbroker.

Yes, I thought of doing that, but as you said PITA ! I e-mailed this clown last night, late, and told him not to worry about the ammo I found someone that wanted it. Then went on to tell him the BATFE dose not permit the sale of ammunition without a 07/FFL MFG. and proper packaging. My e-mails blew-up, not answering for a while. He likes to make bullets, he can sweat bullets till their up to his A$$ !

Reactions: 1

Shore Tactical

· #14 · Dec 6, 2014 (Edited)

BoomSlang,
While we understand that you are not happy with your ammo purchase we have had lots of positive feedback on gun broker. If the package was damaged as you have said and witnessed a driver abusing the package we could possibly go to the carrier for replacement. I don't think a firm like Atlantic Firearms would be selling a product if it wasn't a quality product. Shore Tactical does not manufacture, inspect, package, store or ship this ammo as it is drop shipped directly from the manufacture. We have demo boxes of there ammo that we have fired various calibers included 45 ourselves and never had an issues with QC. The manufacture has assured us that its licensed high quality factory reman ammo made by contract loaders all running powder checks and the QC needed to produce reman ammunition. However, since nothing is perfect if you could please send some pictures to us of the rounds in question (pockets, dents or any load data) so we can send this information on long to the manufacture of the ammunition we would greatly appreciate it. There are plans for the rounds to begin shipping in plastic ammo containers and not boxes but I'm not sure when that will start.
Our business practice of drop shipping ammo has been full checked with the BATF prior to going into contract for selling ammo on GunBroker.
Please contact us directly if you would like to further discuss a return or a possible carrier claim.

-ST

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BOOMSLANG

Discussion Starter · #15 · Dec 6, 2014 (Edited)

Shore Tactical said:
BoomSlang,
While we understand that you are not happy with your ammo purchase we have had lots of positive feedback on gun broker. If the package was damaged as you have said and witnessed a driver abusing the package we could possibly go to the carrier for replacement. I don't think a firm like Atlantic Firearms would be selling a product if it wasn't a quality product. Shore Tactical does not manufacture, inspect, package, store or ship this ammo as it is drop shipped directly from the manufacture. We have demo boxes of there ammo that we have fired various calibers included 45 ourselves and never had an issues with QC. The manufacture has assured us that its licensed high quality factory reman ammo made by contract loaders all running powder checks and the QC needed to produce reman ammunition. However, since nothing is perfect if you could please send some pictures to us of the rounds in question (pockets, dents or any load data) so we can send this information on long to the manufacture of the ammunition we would greatly appreciate it. There are plans for the rounds to begin shipping in plastic ammo containers and not boxes but I'm not sure when that will start.
Our business practice of drop shipping ammo has been full checked with the BATF prior to going into contract for selling ammo on GunBroker.
Please contact us directly if you would like to further discuss a return or a possible carrier claim.

-ST

You know, this ammo is just sh!t ! No quality control whatsoever, no lot #s, hell the return address label is even ripped off so just tell me exactly who you hold responsible when you have a KB, no one that's who, cause of no trail. And the shooter is left blinded or worse. This trash was not professionally loaded, NO WAY ! You won't take responsibility for it, fed arm or natmil would say they never saw it. This stuff looks pathetic with brass, nickel countless case manufactures. Someone with no knowledge of reloading could have made it, how would I know, it would be like shooting something you found along a road. Why did you take down all your auctions ? Don't stock me, YOU will not like what you find ! :twisted:

Shore Tactical

· #16 · Dec 6, 2014 (Edited)

I can assure you this ammo was loaded and shipped by FedArm. I would like to get them involved so that can state that the package you received was in fact from them. If the label was ripped that could have happen any time along the way. You said the box was like a rag, so the label could have been destroyed at any point. I'm not trying to rip you of or be deceptive in any way. We follow the shippers return policy but are willing to work with you on this. This week we were catching up on orders and more ammo auctions will be listed this week. Please message me or send us an e-mail and we will get in contact with FedArm so they can be involved in the conversation. If you do not wish for us to contact you any further please let us know but we are only trying to help. I would still like to see pictures of the ammo in question if you could send them to us or post them here. If its really has bad as you have described then we'll just have to eat the shipping and do a full refund.

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Buku Ringo

· #17 · Dec 6, 2014

Would I shoot it?

No way.

BOOMSLANG

Discussion Starter · #18 · Dec 6, 2014

All you have is excuses, I only wish we could discuss this face to face, maybe we can ! The shipping label that is issued by the postal service had the corner tore off of it and is under a full coverage of tape, so much for your theory, however the moron who did this, obviously to conceal the origin of this package. Doesn't this person know all of this information is imbedded in the bar code also ? As to your fraudulent ad stating this is to come in "100rd. boxes to stock your shelves" that is exactly what your ad described and depicted, right ! If you would have pictured the box of garbage you sent me I would never have bid, and this would be a non-issue. We've play by your rules to this point and the outcome has been less than good, so now to preserve any reputation your Co. may have I would suggest you send me a pre-paid return shipping label with the address of your choice, a full refund including shipping in the form of a U.S.P.S. money order and when I receive it I will ship out the same day in the same box, sounds reasonable to me, the same trust I put in you ! I can assure you I have no desire to retain this ammo. If this can not be arranged your Co. will get very descriptive negative feedback on GB and since you have chosen to stock me down on social media and reveal your Co. name, I will also do the same on every gun forum I am on with a complete portfolio of your merchandise, only depicting the absolute truth. As for you returning negative feedback on me, I don't care, I'm a buyer not a seller, with well over two hundred positive feedbacks, and when you do return negative feedback it will be libelous due to the fact that I paid you the same day, at that point my responsibility as a buyer is complete. As a matter of fact you should have already given me my due positive feedback, but instead your Co. thinks it will hold this over my head in a attempt to intimidate me. FYI, your feedback means less to me than two squirts of pi$$, I have cash and have not met a business person yet that was not willing to take it. Ball is in your court, how ya wana play ?

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Shore Tactical

· #19 · Dec 7, 2014

BoomSlang,
We have been honest with you about this auction. If there was something that was concealed intentionally for some reason it was not us but the shipper. I have offered to put you directly in touch with them so they can verify that that this was shipped by them.
The text of the add states;

Based on inventory, will come packaged in:

" 1,000 rounds; packaged in 100 round retail boxes(great for dealers to stock the shelves).
or
" Poly bag within a 1000 round cardboard indestructo shipper box

During the time of this auction there were no boxed rounds in inventory with the shipper.

I had no issue reveling my company name since I have nothing to hide. As for the feedback. We have not given you feedback simply due to the fact that there were so many auctions that week we just have not got to each auction to fill it in you are not the only one that has not received it yet. I'm not sure why you would assume that we would give you negative feedback since we have not pointed any of these issues to be your fault or indicated that you did not follow through with the auction in anyway. Yes, you are correct, feedback is much more important to sellers than it is to buyers. Why do you think when this thread was brought to our attention by our analytic software that we wanted follow up with it. We have communicated with you in a professional manor and are trying to resolve the situation.

Here is what I would like to do for the return and I think you will find it reasonable.
I will refund your shipping and handling cost for both cases of ammo immediately (if you agree). If I post the return in the morning (Sunday) it will take a day or two to get back to your account.
While that is being processed I will have two labels sent to you either by e-mail or sail mail for the return shipments, whichever you prefer. You stick them on the boxes and send them back.
Once tracking for those labels has shown that they have arrived at FedArm I will issues a full refund for the auction total amount.

This refund will be issued by Shore Tactical and not FedArm.

I know its more of your time to ask but I would still like any pictures that you can provide either of the packaging as it arrived or the rounds with the defects for us to look at.
Since we do not stock or handle any inventory for ammunition the label will be sending it back to FedArm and not us and we have no way of see what you have received.
Please let me know if this return is agreeable with you and we will begin the process.

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wannabe

· #20 · Dec 7, 2014

Automatic accuracy.com. **** thousands of rounds of ammo from him.

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