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Most of us have more than one rifle. When I first got the SCAR, I thought it would serve a back up role to one of my 5.56 ARs should any unfortunate needs arise. However, the more I shoot this thing, the more I think that it should be my primary rifle. It isn't heavy, the recoil is pretty light, the accuracy is superb, the simple design and build should equate to durability and 7.62x51 offers superior lethality to the common intermediate rounds. As I see it, the only downside is heavier ammo meaning one would carry less or sacrifice another item in favor of more bullets.

I'm curious to learn what you think and where your SCAR 17S fits into any personal defense need scenario.
 

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The only issue with a 7.62/.308 being a primary weapon is ammo, if you have a readily available and steady supply I'd say you're G2G, if not a 5.56/.223 is the preferred option. I own a 16s for SHTF and a .308 rifle for, shall we say........surgical work. :biggrin:
 

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^^^^^^^^

Exactly. FN ammo costs. 7.62 is way expensive to hoard.
 

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If I had to grab a rifle to bug out or defend my family and friends, its the 17s hands down. If S really HTF (lol) I would shoot my way to more 7.62 ammo. Id try to throw my ar over my shoulder as well but if it was like pick a rifle and 200 rds, 17 for sure.
 

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Shooting your way to a unicorn is still shooting your way to a unicorn. Hands down 5.56/.223, a 16s will drive a tack right through a target at 200m without question 24/7/365. If you think toting a 17s with an AR slung on your shoulder is going to be easy with ammo to feed both, might I suggest loading a backpack with the same weight and take a leisurely hike one day, let us know how that went fer'ya! Reality is a heartless b!tch sometimes and weight is weight no matter how fit you are. Besides engaging targets beyond 200-300m is not practical in a SHTF scenario at those distances you seek cover and hope the threat moves on past. In a SHTF situation you NEVER give away your location or any tactical advantage you have unless of course you're not partial to such things.

If I had to grab a rifle to bug out or defend my family and friends, its the 17s hands down. If S really HTF (lol) I would shoot my way to more 7.62 ammo. Id try to throw my ar over my shoulder as well but if it was like pick a rifle and 200 rds, 17 for sure.
 

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Dude! I respectfully disagree, there truthfully isn't much a 5.56/.223 cannot do that a 7.62/.308 can. Yes, you're not going to be ripping through barriers with a 5.56 unless you have the optimum round. A 16s carries more rounds meaning considerably more firepower, a 5.56 is a known fight stopper/man dropper. Also, there aren't too many animals a 5.56 cannot dispatch with a properly placed shot. Remember a SHTF scenario throws ethical hunting out the window. Back to properly placed shots, it's cheaper to feed a 16s meaning more practice time. As for utility, a 16s is lighter loaded, not by much but still, a decent 5.56 round is devastating on a soft target, it is easier to learn and easier to shoot. You can carry more ammo with less weight. You have 10 extra rounds to engage 10 extra targets without reloading, for all those here who think they can reload a rifle with bullets whizzing past your face, I've got news for you, I've been there and done it, it takes getting used to, yeah it IS somewhat unnerving. Again, 5.56/.223 hands down, and one more reason, none of us can get on a radio and call Uncle and have him airdrop some ammo, 5.56/.223 next to .22lr is the most popular rifle cartridge in the USA.

Ammo is a problem, but the 17s/308 just does more in the end. Remember, what you basically need in SHTF, for instance, is really a utility rifle.
 

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I dont own a 16 or that would likely be what id take, I dont pay much attention shtf scenarios anyway, just saying yes my 17 is my primary. Yes I would take it, no I would not leave it behind in favor of my budget build AR. I never said you were wrong about weight or taking a 16s. Jusy for me the 17 is the go to no question
 

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Yep, ammo is a factor for the SCAR being my primary weapon. The way I see it, my Sig 556R (reliability, accuracy, and ammo) is my primary, and my Sig 556 (accuracy and ammo) is my secondary with the SCAR standing by when needed (longer ranges and when I need more punch).
 

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Dude! I respectfully disagree, there truthfully isn't much a 5.56/.223 cannot do that a 7.62/.308 can. Yes, you're not going to be ripping through barriers with a 5.56 unless you have the optimum round. A 16s carries more rounds meaning considerably more firepower, a 5.56 is a known fight stopper/man dropper. Also, there aren't too many animals a 5.56 cannot dispatch with a properly placed shot. Remember a SHTF scenario throws ethical hunting out the window. Back to properly placed shots, it's cheaper to feed a 16s meaning more practice time. As for utility, a 16s is lighter loaded, not by much but still, a decent 5.56 round is devastating on a soft target, it is easier to learn and easier to shoot. You can carry more ammo with less weight. You have 10 extra rounds to engage 10 extra targets without reloading, for all those here who think they can reload a rifle with bullets whizzing past your face, I've got news for you, I've been there and done it, it takes getting used to, yeah it IS somewhat unnerving. Again, 5.56/.223 hands down, and one more reason, none of us can get on a radio and call Uncle and have him airdrop some ammo, 5.56/.223 next to .22lr is the most popular rifle cartridge in the USA.
OK: stand out 800m from me. Now, stand very still. I plan to test this theory. :th_happy-rotfl4::th_happy-rotfl4:

Seriously, though, part of the reason I feel the way I do is that my SHTF BOP/BOL involves defenses where 400m shots are a real possibility.
 

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Dude! I respectfully disagree, there truthfully isn't much a 5.56/.223 cannot do that a 7.62/.308 can. Yes, you're not going to be ripping through barriers with a 5.56 unless you have the optimum round. A 16s carries more rounds meaning considerably more firepower, a 5.56 is a known fight stopper/man dropper. Also, there aren't too many animals a 5.56 cannot dispatch with a properly placed shot. Remember a SHTF scenario throws ethical hunting out the window. Back to properly placed shots, it's cheaper to feed a 16s meaning more practice time. As for utility, a 16s is lighter loaded, not by much but still, a decent 5.56 round is devastating on a soft target, it is easier to learn and easier to shoot. You can carry more ammo with less weight. You have 10 extra rounds to engage 10 extra targets without reloading, for all those here who think they can reload a rifle with bullets whizzing past your face, I've got news for you, I've been there and done it, it takes getting used to, yeah it IS somewhat unnerving. Again, 5.56/.223 hands down, and one more reason, none of us can get on a radio and call Uncle and have him airdrop some ammo, 5.56/.223 next to .22lr is the most popular rifle cartridge in the USA.
Another factor I should add, all joking aside, is the ability to shoot someone out from cover. That helps to sell it for me.

I suspect that the whole 7.62 versus 5.56 debate for SHTF is sort of a non-issue anyway: I think most people way overestimate how much of either they'll be able to scavenge.

Scavenging is not a good plan.
 

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OK: stand out 800m from me. Now, stand very still. I plan to test this theory. :th_happy-rotfl4::th_happy-rotfl4:

Seriously, though, part of the reason I feel the way I do is that my SHTF BOP/BOL involves defenses where 400m shots are a real possibility.
If that range was a constant in a SHTF why would you not use a sniper rifle?
 

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If that range was a constant in a SHTF why would you not use a sniper rifle?
I have those too. :D

If you are really thinking of a go to gun in terms of SHTF, then you need more than one go to gun cached at various locations.

I think the old principle of prepping (one is none, two is one, etc.) should apply to thinking about weapons as well.

And let me stress this: whatever SHTF gun you choose, you need to commit to getting tons of spare parts for it.
 

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I can see where a situation "might" call for long-range defensive shots. Personally, I'd attempt to work my way closer undetected and a hunting or precision rifle is more than adequate and much lighter to carry for "surgical" work than a 17s. In very skilled hands a 16s is quite capable out to 600m with such shooting being the exception rather than the rule and you equip for the rule. Also, to be totally competent at 800m you need to practice a LOT, with that practicing rarely coming into play in a SHTF scenario. And NO I will not take you up on the offer to stand still at 800m, now if you'd be willing to hold a cigar in your lips at 1000yds with me and my Pre-64 Winny you may have a deal, I have NEVER missed a shot with her at that distance then again I was younger and my eyesight was MUCH better, one can safely rely on history to repeat itself, yes? :-D

OK: stand out 800m from me. Now, stand very still. I plan to test this theory. :th_happy-rotfl4::th_happy-rotfl4:

Seriously, though, part of the reason I feel the way I do is that my SHTF BOP/BOL involves defenses where 400m shots are a real possibility.
 

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Dude! I respectfully disagree, there truthfully isn't much a 5.56/.223 cannot do that a 7.62/.308 can. Yes, you're not going to be ripping through barriers with a 5.56 unless you have the optimum round. A 16s carries more rounds meaning considerably more firepower, a 5.56 is a known fight stopper/man dropper. Also, there aren't too many animals a 5.56 cannot dispatch with a properly placed shot. Remember a SHTF scenario throws ethical hunting out the window. Back to properly placed shots, it's cheaper to feed a 16s meaning more practice time. As for utility, a 16s is lighter loaded, not by much but still, a decent 5.56 round is devastating on a soft target, it is easier to learn and easier to shoot. You can carry more ammo with less weight. You have 10 extra rounds to engage 10 extra targets without reloading, for all those here who think they can reload a rifle with bullets whizzing past your face, I've got news for you, I've been there and done it, it takes getting used to, yeah it IS somewhat unnerving. Again, 5.56/.223 hands down, and one more reason, none of us can get on a radio and call Uncle and have him airdrop some ammo, 5.56/.223 next to .22lr is the most popular rifle cartridge in the USA.
I disagree. Look at the differences in ballistics of 308 vs 5.56. I'm saying 5.56 is ineffective, but it is much more limited in its capabilities than a battle rifle chambered in 308. Most shots with a 308 will do enough damage that it would take a target out of the fight. For a 5.56 to be effective it really needs to be placed in the "hydraulic zone" to be an instant incapacitation or kill shot. Also, having 10 extra rounds doesn't mean an extra 10 kills, I don't think I've ever seen a haji who has only been shot once with a 5.56. Ever. I HAVE seen haji who have been shot multiple with 5.56 times and somehow remain fighting. Another deciding factor, is the effective range of the 308.
I agree that shot placement is a big part of the equation, but you can't deny ballistics and the physics behind it.
 

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I can see where a situation "might" call for long-range defensive shots. Personally, I'd attempt to work my way closer undetected and a hunting or precision rifle is more than adequate and much lighter to carry for "surgical" work than a 17s. In very skilled hands a 16s is quite capable out to 600m with such shooting being the exception rather than the rule and you equip for the rule. Also, to be totally competent at 800m you need to practice a LOT, with that practicing rarely coming into play in a SHTF scenario. And NO I will not take you up on the offer to stand still at 800m, now if you'd be willing to hold a cigar in your lips at 1000yds with me and my Pre-64 Winny you may have a deal, I have NEVER missed a shot with her at that distance then again I was younger and my eyesight was MUCH better, one can safely rely history to repeat itself, yes? :-D
For the cigar, Dominican or Cuban?: what's worth doing is worth doing right! :lol:
 

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Okay, from one former 1st Bn. Ranger to another, you're talking the ballistics of NATO cartridges. The 5.56 is a flatter shooting round, yes the 7.62 will defeat many barriers however the 5.56 is plenty effective against soft targets. As you are no doubt familiar, out here in the Civilian world ammo ain't cheap and you have a better chance of becoming a better shot with a 5.56 than 7.62 based on ammo cost alone. You give me 10 extra rounds and I'll make Uncle Sam right proud by doing my very best to place each of them in the "T". You are also no doubt aware that tactics defeat weapons, you remain hidden and a .22lr will do just fine. People like you and I have the advantage not many share, for those who do not share the same training and must shoulder training and ammo costs alone 5.56 wins everday!

RLTW Brother! :?

I disagree. Look at the differences in ballistics of 308 vs 5.56. I'm saying 5.56 is ineffective, but it is much more limited in its capabilities than a battle rifle chambered in 308. Most shots with a 308 will do enough damage that it would take a target out of the fight. For a 5.56 to be effective it really needs to be placed in the "hydraulic zone" to be an instant incapacitation or kill shot. Also, having 10 extra rounds doesn't mean an extra 10 kills, I don't think I've ever seen a haji who has only been shot once with a 5.56. Ever. I HAVE seen haji who have been shot multiple with 5.56 times and somehow remain fighting. Another deciding factor, is the effective range of the 308.
I agree that shot placement is a big part of the equation, but you can't deny ballistics and the physics behind it.
 
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I am bunkered out, so I'm not lookin for sh!t, runnin from sh!t or lugin sh!t ! Stand my ground, so my 17 would be a great first choice till I needed a barrel change, then the POF is up to bat till one of my BOBs get the 17 back up -n- runnin. You got to love parts and ammo. You can never have to much ! Let it rain............. :?
 

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I am bunkered out, so I'm not lookin for sh!t, runnin from sh!t or lugin sh!t ! Stand my ground, so my 17 would be a great first choice till I needed a barrel change, then the POF is up to bat till one of my BOBs get the 17 back up -n- runnin. You got to love parts and ammo. You can never have to much ! Let it rain............. :?
I salute your taste, sir: POF is a great piston AR choice. I have beaten the ever living hell out of mine, and it just keeps tickin'. I'll be getting a back up one in the next year or so.
 
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