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Discussion Starter #1
These are pictures of my favorite carry-rounds. The unique make-up of this ammo consists of micro-gauge, steel or titanium rods which are anchored into the core of the round and sealed. Other than enhanced-extreme penetration, they exhibit the same ballistic performance as SS192(Ball)-SS195LF-SS197SR.

Std. 5.7 x 28 SS195LF



5.7 x 28 Titanium Razor



5.7 x 28 Bulldog



5.7 x 28 Ranger



5.7 x 28 Viper

 

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Hey Vamesq-

From what I can see these look good.
Question: So are the tips steel or titanium? and do they form into the rod? Does the rod extend the full length of the projectile?
Do you make these?






vamesq said:
These are pictures of my favorite carry-rounds. The unique make-up of this ammo consists of micro-gauge, steel or titanium rods which are anchored into the core of the round and sealed. Other than enhanced-extreme penetration, they exhibit the same ballistic performance as SS192(Ball)-SS195LF-SS197SR.

Std. 5.7 x 28 SS195LF



5.7 x 28 Titanium Razor



5.7 x 28 Bulldog



5.7 x 28 Ranger



5.7 x 28 Viper

 

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Discussion Starter #4
Titanium or Steel Tips?

Thank you for your comments. Yes, the tips are formed onto-into the rod (uniformity). Most tips are steel (easier to get), with the exception of the Titanium Razor. The rod does extend the full length of the projectile and is extremely deadly and volitile upon impact as the result of 5.7 yaw, etc. An ex-military associate of mine has been very actively testing these rounds, which is what he was previously hired to do for our government.
 

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Re: Titanium or Steel Tips?

Impressed.
Here in the US these(maybe the exception of the "Titanium Razor") would be considered AP, since they meet the (i) definition of AP
Ref:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm

To make or sell these in the US you would have to have an FFL Type 10






vamesq said:
Thank you for your comments. Yes, the tips are formed onto-into the rod (uniformity). Most tips are steel (easier to get), with the exception of the Titanium Razor. The rod does extend the full length of the projectile and is extremely deadly and volitile upon impact as the result of 5.7 yaw, etc. An ex-military associate of mine has been very actively testing these rounds, which is what he was previously hired to do for our government.
 

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here we go again. The core isn't 100% the rod, so they don't meet the def. of armor piercing as provided in your linky. This is why SS109 bullets aren't considered armor piercing, half of the core is lead.
 

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Your not seeing/reading the AP definition correctly-
Per the (i) definition of AP:
"(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium;"

The projectile or the core of the projectile is the subject. Since the tip and rod are both constructed from the restricted metals listed and goes from the tip to the base- then this IS THE CORE of the above projectiles. If the tip stayed steel, and the rod became a non restricted metal(copper, titanium, tin, etc.) then this changes the make up of the entire core and declassifies the projectile as being NON AP.

The tip of the projectile can be a restricted metal or the back end can be also, BUT NOT BOTH. The core of a bullet runs the length(tip to back end) of the bullet-vertically and is cylinderical in shape. Be it .05 mm to 3mm or larger in diameter makes no difference- it is still considered the core. lead being around the rod makes no difference.
You need to remeber that the SS109 ONLY HAS the TIP as steel- there is no rod connecting from the tip going further down into the projectile, this also applies to the FN SS190 projectile.

If he doesn't reside in the US or has a Type 10 FFL -then no big deal.




Orbital said:
here we go again. The core isn't 100% the rod, so they don't meet the def. of armor piercing as provided in your linky. This is why SS109 bullets aren't considered armor piercing, half of the core is lead.
 

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Xtra-Super 5.7x28 ammo

Hi,
I was wondering how the testing of your ammo was going and if any of it is for sale?
 

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Then what about the Barnes Banded Solids?

It is entirely brass (copper/zinc alloy) and can be loaded into a number of .22 cartridges that could be fired from a handgun.
 

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You know that this thread was created on April 1st and they have not been back since?


Now lets look at another round with AP tendencies.

In the realm of precision manufacturing, there is the good, the bad, and the dangerously mal-manufactured. To understand what a mal-manufactured round is, I have included a cross-section of one such bullet.

For those who lack an understanding of precision bullet manufacturing, such as the maker of this particular bullet, please see below.

Notice, if you will, how poorly the copper base was drilled; off center and at an angle.
Item 1

Now, please take note of how incredibly uneven the top of the copper base is.
Item 2

Now, we come to just how well the tip is fitted; WELL that is if you’re a blind, one-armed man with a cordless drill and a seeing-eye-dog with arthritis.
Item 3

Also, take note of just how far off center the inserted tip is. Even though the feminine population may like things inserted off center; this is not something striven for in precision bullet manufacturing.
Item 4


 

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It's not for precision shooting.
So who cares if it has imperfections of symmetry?
I wouldn't diss such a bullet by its cross section when all that matters is its terminal performance.
As for "dangerously mal-manufactured", this poorly cut cross section isn't very convincing. With all those random tool marks I can't tell if it is the bullet maker or the cross-section guy who has things askew.
And the fact that the tip stayed in place during machining makes me wonder what could possibly be dangerous about this bullet.
 

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They were falling out before I touched them and if you think all of that poor inside will not affect the round you have no under standing of how or what a bullet is.


The grinder has nothing to do with how poorly fitted the insert is. If you know so much about bullets then please tell me how a cross section can make the base under the inserted tip so crooked?

The drill marks in the hole under the insert?

The hole not drilled strait?

The bullet bases varies by over a thousands in diameter.

Beside I didn't perform a cross section until tips started falling.

You know honestly that this poor internal construction will effect performance, even a pawn shop manager is not so naive.
 

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Nice to see that Berkley Poet is actually Panzer (someone already removed from this site):

http://fivesevenforum.net/showthread.php?t=17122

I am posting this link, but refraining from other comments. We have a forum rule that prevents neg comments about the "other forum." It seems that this professionalism is not returned, as we get nothing but insults thrown at us, and it is really getting old... This forum and myself have been personally attacked for over a year now...
 

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Your right- these are all entirely brass, or are they? I need to get my hands on a few of these and make sure. If they are indeed all BRASS then this means the first (i) def. of the AP law can be ignored due to the exemption of the 22.cal bullet from (ii) def.
Either case I think you pointed out something I have overlooked- at least this is good news for Vamesq.



HK SD9 Tactical said:
Then what about the Barnes Banded Solids?

It is entirely brass (copper/zinc alloy) and can be loaded into a number of .22 cartridges that could be fired from a handgun.
 

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That sucks-
who made those rounds?

berkleypoet said:
You know that this thread was created on April 1st and they have not been back since?


Now lets look at another round with AP tendencies.

In the realm of precision manufacturing, there is the good, the bad, and the dangerously mal-manufactured. To understand what a mal-manufactured round is, I have included a cross-section of one such bullet.

For those who lack an understanding of precision bullet manufacturing, such as the maker of this particular bullet, please see below.

Notice, if you will, how poorly the copper base was drilled; off center and at an angle.
Item 1

Now, please take note of how incredibly uneven the top of the copper base is.
Item 2

Now, we come to just how well the tip is fitted; WELL that is if you’re a blind, one-armed man with a cordless drill and a seeing-eye-dog with arthritis.
Item 3

Also, take note of just how far off center the inserted tip is. Even though the feminine population may like things inserted off center; this is not something striven for in precision bullet manufacturing.
Item 4


 

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Ship-

I just hit the link you posted.
PLEASE EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE AND ANGER- BUT

I AM ****ING PISSED!!!!!!. I AM TAKING LEGAL ACTION TORDES THESE ****ERS!!!
THIS INFO IS A COMPLETE LIE AND FABRICATION. I NEVER MADE SUCH A BULLET.



ShipWreck said:
Nice to see that Berkley Poet is actually Panzer (someone already removed from this site):

http://fivesevenforum.net/showthread.php?t=17122

I am posting this link, but refraining from other comments. We have a forum rule that prevents neg comments about the "other forum." It seems that this professionalism is not returned, as we get nothing but insults thrown at us, and it is really getting old... This forum and myself have been personally attacked for over a year now...
 

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I just went over to the 57forum- had an alias setup for rainy day such as this-
posted replies to panzer and the rest- in a matter of 10 minutes I was banned.

You can belive they have something to hide now that they know I am taking legal action against them.
 

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I love the fivesevenforum

I don't know anything about your fight baca, but I am a proud member of the fiveseven forum, as I am of this forum.

I have never had a problem with them, in fact quite the opposite. Just wanted to put that out there so people don't think the forum is a bad one. It is a great source of info on the 5.7x28mm round and the weapons that fire it.
 

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Re: I love the fivesevenforum

flyingirish04 said:
I don't know anything about your fight baca, but I am a proud member of the fiveseven forum, as I am of this forum.

I have never had a problem with them, in fact quite the opposite. Just wanted to put that out there so people don't think the forum is a bad one. It is a great source of info on the 5.7x28mm round and the weapons that fire it.
Well, if you like their forum, then I am happy.

I am going to lock this thread now, however, because I know things are about to get Ugly. Too many members here have a different point of view, and I know they would be dying to explain exactly WHY they have that point of view to you.

However, we created the rule here (at our site) about no neg comments directed towards the Five Seven Forum. That level of professionallism has never been returned on their part. And, there has been continued problems over quite some time.

That is all I will say.
 
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