[AGG]

The elusive Gen. 4 pack.

Tony

 

[Gunenthusiasts123]

Since I've been handling a lot of trigger packs I've noticed 5 distinct types. I have pictures of all five types I'll have to post ASAP. I've never seen the all black one, so that would make a 6th type. I have a PS90 who's serial # indicates it is one of the first thousand, and it's not black. Are black ones limited to the first couple hundred units? Does anyone on here have a black one?

Did you ever find out if the all black packs were tied to your low serial # ps90?

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Where is the "beat the dead horse" emoji?

 

[SeaMac]

Where is the "beat the dead horse" emoji?

It's the out of date and out of touch recommended reading feature that's to blame for resurrecting this 9 year old post.

 

[Gunenthusiasts123]

Recently saw FN03771X (green stock/white optic) with the full black, Gen. 1 trigger pack!!! :th_neverseen:
I thought that the Gen. 1 packs stopped at FN031XXX and FN035XXX. :th_omg:
Can someone enlighten? :thanksrp8:

Tony

Is this true?

 

[SeaMac]

Is this true?

Are you not seeing that the posts you're replying to are 9 years old?

 

[AGG]

Is this true?

PS90 Configuration Information

Thought this may be helpful to those wanting to know about their PS90, or looking to purchase one: https://www.hkproshop.com/forums/threads/fn-ps90-serial-number-ranges-generation-trigger-packs-barrel-configurations.295/ Tony

www.fnforum.net

I think not--- I believe that the original, Gen. 1 trigger pack was sold for a good price, and replaced with an inexpensive, P90 trigger pack.
Here are the trigger packs that I have seen, from the Firearms Reference Data:

Firearms Reference Data

For the novice, or advanced collector!!! :) Serial numbers, markings, factory shipping containers and accessories (from the factory), importer information, etc.. $100.00 ((USPMO)(no annual update)), with no annual update $125.00 (USPMO)(1 annual update)annual update) $225.00 (USPMO)(unlimited...

www.fnforum.net

Generation Trigger Packs

- Generation 1 (black trigger pack; black hammer; OD front sear; black front auto sear)
(front sear with post that return spring sits in)

a) black stock/Generation 1/PS90’s only available to premium FNH dealers participating in
FN USA stocking dealer program from 01-01-06 to 08-31-06

- Generation 2 (gray trigger pack; black hammer; OD front sear; black front auto sear)
(front sear with shelf on it)

- Generation 2.1 (gray trigger pack; black hammer; gray front sear; black front auto sear)(front sear with shelf on it)

- Generation 2.2 (gray trigger pack; black hammer; gray modified front sear; black front auto sear)(front sear with shelf on it)

- Generation 3 (gray trigger pack; gray hammer with higher cut notch; gray modified front sear; black front auto sear)(front sear with shelf on it)

Does not exist:

- Generation 4 (gray trigger pack; black hammer with higher cut notch; gray modified front sear/no front auto sear)

Tony

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Colors do not mark generations. Colors only represent a new run on parts used to build the hammer packs. Don't complicate part design changes with color of parts changes.

Gen 1 Post on primary sear for return spring.

Gen 2 Shelf on primary sear for return spring.

Gen 3 Notch cut on hammer is higher.

There are no other generations.

A change in the color of the sear or hammer doesn't change the generation of the hammer pack.

Generation changes are changes in design of the parts, not changes in colors of the parts.

If you want to use colors, there would be more than 10 generations. Translucent hammers, orange hammers (not aftermarket), gray hammers, black hammers, white hammers, brown sears, green sears, gray sears, white auto sears, black auto sears, etc etc etc. I have personally seen all of the above colors in hammer packs yet three things remain the same no matter the colors. A post on the primary sear, a shelf on the primary sear, or the notch placement on the hammer.

 

[AGG]

Colors do not mark generations. Colors only represent a new run on parts used to build the hammer packs. Don't complicate part design changes with color of parts changes.

Gen 1 Post on primary sear for return spring.

Gen 2 Shelf on primary sear for return spring.

Gen 3 Notch cut on hammer is higher.

There are no other generations.

A change in the color of the sear or hammer doesn't change the generation of the hammer pack.

Generation changes are changes in design of the parts, not changes in colors of the parts.

If you want to use colors, there would be more than 10 generations. Translucent hammers, orange hammers (not aftermarket), gray hammers, black hammers, white hammers, brown sears, green sears, gray sears, white auto sears, black auto sears, etc etc etc. I have personally seen all of the above colors in hammer packs yet three things remain the same no matter the colors. A post on the primary sear, a shelf on the primary sear, or the notch placement on the hammer.

I understand--- mine is a generalization of what I have seen.

Tony

 

[seatstaken]

Trying to get a little more detailed information on trigger packs, even after reading through all 27 pages.

I feel like the first page should be updated with the pictures from page 26 that actually show what is being talked about. Although I'm still having a hard time understanding what "the post" is that the picture is trying to show for the Gen 1 packs. I think it is a little round piece that sticks slightly farther out, and it is flush in the Gen 2 packs? The details are kind of blurry. Finally getting to see how the notch is different on the trigger is extremely useful though. And I'm assuming that "shelf" and "notch" are being used interchangeably?
An interesting observation is that the hammer as a "1" on the side which I am assuming is the mold number. I wonder how many different mold numbers there have been.
It was mentioned like only once or twice about the molded in clock. It might not be able to tell you exactly when different generations happened, but they can be used to narrow things down with dates. Documenting them would be very useful for a more complete picture.
Also only mention like once or twice was the green dot. Anyone ever figure that out? Seeing as how it seems like not all have it, I would assume it was an early type of quality inspection stamp, but if so what exactly did it signify. My P90 trigger pack also has the green dot.
It sounds like there were a few different components that had different color versions. I wonder when these color changes happened, and why. I know that with AK mags, something I have a nice collection of especially a few prototype mags, that they experimented with different colors because what was used for the color actually affected it's strength. I wonder if that is what the white and orange hammers came from. Would love to see a picture of what those looked like. Also wonder if there were prototype designs in this regard, even with the P90/PS90 itself, like there are with AK mags and also H&K had different early color prototypes with their firearms, and also an interesting clear body versions of a lot of their stuff.
I think I can agree with using different generations to signify actual updates to the design, and not just color. Although maybe if there was a specific demarcation point for a certain color update then perhaps that could also be used, but I feel like it would be better to use that as a sub-generation update.
What is this change in the "ramp" design that is talked about for Gen 3's?
And it seems like there has been no Gen 4 at all, which means that the Gen 3's have been around for a while. Do we know when, or roughly when, the Gen 2's came about and the Gen 3's?
Also on page 26 it mentions that the P90's had a "primary sear" with "ears", and was curious about what this was. I'm assuming that the primary sear is the auto sear on the front? And what are these ears that are mentioned?

And collecting: People want the Gen1's and 2's for the same reason they want any other item that is collected. It isn't because of any FA thing, although there isn't anything wrong with that if they did; not like they could actually do any FA with the trigger pack to begin with except maybe make it slam fire. It's because it's an early item from the very first iteration of the firearm. They are rare. People like to collect things. Saying something like "they all do the same thing" shows that you know nothing about collector culture. I have a Valmet prototype AK mag that is a lemon drop clear color that I paid $700 for, an Izhmash quadstack AK mag that I paid $1.2k for, a prototype steel AK74/AL-7 mag that I paid $1k for and other rare mags but not quite so much as those. They all do the same thing, but at this point it isn't about what it does.
And documenting these design changes, and other features like color and that green dot, is important for collecting. There are collectors firearms reference books that go into this sort of minute of minutia documenting serial number ranges when specific things changed and some even down to when certain inspection stamps were added.

Mini rant:
Read through all 27 pages mostly filled with a lot of useless talk. Incredibly frustrating to read through a bunch of boomer style talk with someone constantly repeating "they all do the same thing which is make it go boom". Yeah, that has literally nothing to do with a conversation about collecting trigger packs and the differences being documented in order to have a better understanding about what is out there. Or the constant vague talk about "getting close to the bad speak about FA with the ATF." There is nothing illegal about talking about how FA works. There wouldn't even be anything illegal about modifying a Gen2 hammer to a Gen1, for the same reason Gen1 trigger packs are not illegal. P90 trigger packs aren't even illegal. The trigger pack isn't what is required to convert a PS90 to full-auto. You could even modify a P90 trigger pack to fit into a PS90, because it won't actually change anything. It's not the trigger packs that are the NFA regulated item nor will they cause the firearm to fire FA. Same as why there is no problem with the bolt in the PS90, or why you can install a full-auto bolt in an AR.
And why did it take 26 pages to finally get to the actual useful information to be pictured that would have cleared up a ton of confusion much earlier on?

Anywhoo... Lots of questions that I was wondering and hope to get a discussion on, along with a mini rant that I had to get off my chest after reading through every page.

 

[gbosh]

🤦‍♂️...

 

[BenadunDunderhunt]

[Gen 3 Pack] While trying to learn how to disassemble as much of the ps90 as I can, I removed the pin that runs through the front sear (the one that indexes with the rods from the trigger) only to realize how big a mistake that was because there is like zero documentation on how to replace the spring back inside the pack. I cant seem to compress it while also fitting it back in place, the space is just too small. only thing I could find is someone saying that I'd have to remove a blind pin in the bottom of the catch. Some guy on this site in a post from a decade ago said you could just turn it a certain way and that he had pictures, but he never posted the pictures nor elaborated. I'm stuck and would very much appreciate some help

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

There are 5 pins in the hammer pack. Pin 1 holds the auto sear. Pin 2 holds the hammer. Pin 3 holds the primary sear and has a cross pin in it making it un-removable without a lot of frustration, usually breaking the primary sear, cross pin, or even the pin itself. Pin 4 holds the hammer while the hammer is cocked. Pin 5 holds the drop safety. These pins also hold other items as well.

Which pin or pins did you remove? If you need help with reassembly, we will do our best to assist you but we need to know exactly what you did.

If you want to discuss how to make the hammer pack into a full auto pack, go somewhere else. This forum does not provide any guidance to anyone on how to accomplish this.

BTW, a picture is worth a thousand words......

 

[BenadunDunderhunt]

By your count, pin 4. The large singular spring around pin 4 was the spring in question. But after like 2 and a half hours of headache I got it back thanks to some advice from an old post on another forum, thank you for the reply though

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Yup, pin 4 is the second hardest of them all. Pin 3 being the hardest.

Glad you got it back together.

I am of like mind when it comes to discussions on the hammer packs. Unfortunately, I don't own the site so I have to follow the rules that are handed down by the owner, which BTW is a Canadian company.

 

[aggie113]

Members have PM'ed me to identity the differences between the Generations of the Hammer Packs for the PS90. I have written extensively about it but there is still some confusion as to what exactly constitutes a Gen 1 from a Gen 2 or a Gen 3 Hammer Pack and pictures were requested. So here is the definitive show and tell.

Here is the short of it:

Gen 1 Hammer Pack has the post on the bottom of the primary sear.
Gen 2 Hammer Pack has the shelf on the bottom of the primary sear.
Gen 3 Hammer Pack has the shelf on the bottom of the primary sear and the hammer has the notch cut higher on the rotational axis of the hammer.


What does this mean? Full explanation is below with pictures to clarify the parts that have been changed resulting in generational identifications.


Generation 1 - the Original Hammer Pack.

View attachment 137900

Post on the bottom of the primary sear. See the post on the bottom of the primary sear where the return spring sits? This "post" is what makes it a Gen 1 Hammer Pack.


Generation 2 - The New and Improved Hammer Pack (first design change).

View attachment 137901

The "shelf" on the bottom of the primary sear instead of the "post". The "shelf" will automatically return the arm of the return spring back to the "notch" it needs to be in to make the primary sear function as it should.


Generation 3 - The Second and Final Design Change (hopefully).

View attachment 137902

The "notch" in the hammer has been moved, or cut "higher" on the rotational axis as seen in the picture above. Notice the notch locations between the hammers. Top hammer (from Man Kave) is an after market Gen 1 hammer, bottom hammer is factory Gen 3 hammer. What does the placement of the notch do? The "notch" position on the hammer defeats the function of the "auto sear" being used as an "automatic sear". The "auto sear" is the sear that sits and rotates on the first pin in the hammer pack.

So in summary:

Gen 1 Hammer Pack has the post on the bottom of the primary sear.
Gen 2 Hammer Pack has the shelf on the bottom of the primary sear.
Gen 3 Hammer Pack has the shelf on the bottom of the primary sear and the hammer has the notch cut higher on the rotational axis of the hammer.

ATF does not take kindly to anyone violating the law which can mean 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine

Don't think this is correct. I've seen what many referred to as Gen 2 trigger packs with the same shelf on the hammer sear as the Gen 1 trigger packs. In this way, their was no physical difference between Gen 1 and Gen 2 hammer packs. Gen 3 appears to be the trigger pack when the shelf on the hammer sear was modified from previous trigger packs.

 

[HK SD9 Tactical]

Reread post 504.

Three generations.

One - post on primary sear.

Two - shelf on primary sear.

Three - shelf on primary sear and hammer notch cut higher.

Simple as tea. Colors play no difference. Generations are physical changes to parts of the hammer pack.

For instance I have a Gen 1 all black with OD sear and post on sear. I have Gen 1 that is grey and black with a green dot that also has a post on the sear. The fact that they are two different colors means nothing. A post on the primary sear for the return spring makes it a Gen 1, as long as the hammer pack was not altered after market.

If there is a shelf on the bottom of the primary sear, it is a Gen 2 or 3 pack.

 

[AGG]

A